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Offline Law_Hawg

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Bielema's Recruiting
« on: November 14, 2017, 01:02:16 PM »

I'm putting this in a new thread because I think it deserves its own thread instead of being buried somewhere in a lengthy one.  Andrew Hutchinson at Hawgs247 put together a pretty extensive review of Bielema's recruiting, and how his recruiting compare to Bielema's immediate predecessors.  It's worth a read.

Five years in: Examining Bielema as a recruiter

Offline big_pig

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 01:20:29 PM »
I'm putting this in a new thread because I think it deserves its own thread instead of being buried somewhere in a lengthy one.  Andrew Hutchinson at Hawgs247 put together a pretty extensive review of Bielema's recruiting, and how his recruiting compare to Bielema's immediate predecessors.  It's worth a read.

Five years in: Examining Bielema as a recruiter

So if I'm skipping over this correctly, Bielema has recruited as good or better than Bobby but obviously his results are far below Bobby's
I am not claiming I am right, I am saying I don't get it.

Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 01:21:34 PM »
So if I'm skipping over this correctly, Bielema has recruited as good or better than Bobby but obviously his results are far below Bobby's


I think you've parsed that relatively well.


Offline The Red Death

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 01:37:24 PM »
Once again, Arkansas recruits about the same every year throughout history.   Let’s just call the average 23rd in the country.  Now that’s not going to win many titles in the SEC granted.  However, it’s sure good enough for an overall win average of 8.5 with a good coach.  Which means a competent coach should get 8-9 every year with a down year of 6-7 and an occasional up year of 10-11.  That’s what a good coach should get you. 

We don’t have a good coach.  That’s obvious.  The next coach will have a hard time getting rid of this culture problem.  Cole Kelley has 27 helmet stickers folks.  He’s done exactly jack shit nothing. 

Rat poison culture not called out by the coach with the media.  OUR CULTURE IS THE RAT POISON.
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Offline TexZilla

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 01:53:17 PM »
This says that Bert has done less with more talent.  That says Bert should actually be doing something other than coaching players, or managing coaches. 

Offline Snowman Slayer

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 01:58:14 PM »
So my first guess was that player development had taken a huge hit, but that appears to not be true.  His recruiting classes overall here in Arkansas are better than that of Nutt and teh Petrion, he's getting more players drafted per year as well.  The only thing you could say in terms of NFL development was that Petrinos were averaging a slightly better 4th round average draft position while Bert's were getting drafted average of 5th round- still very close. 

I think this is an open shut case of Bert's scheme sucking a bag of dicks.

Bert's players drafted(2015-2017) 3 years: 4.33/year:  7 Offensive: 6 Defensive: ARD-5.08
2017   6   21   205   Jeremiah Ledbetter   DE   Detroit Lions
2017   4   25   131   Deatrich Wise Jr.   DE   New England Patriots
2017   5   10   154   Jeremy Sprinkle   TE   Washington Redskins
2016   5   17   156   Jonathan Williams   RB   Buffalo Bills
2016   5   32   171   Alex Collins   RB   Seattle Seahawks
2016   6   18   193   Sebastian Tretola   G   Tennessee Titans
2016   6   26   201   Brandon Allen   QB   Jacksonville Jaguars
2016   2   4   35   Hunter Henry   TE   San Diego Chargers
2015   4   2   101   Trey Flowers   DE   New England Patriots
2015   5   5   141   Martrell Spaight   LB   Washington Redskins
2015   6   6   182   Tevin Mitchel   CB   Washington Redskins
2015   6   16   192   Darius Philon   DT   San Diego Chargers
2015   6   26   202   AJ Derby   TE   New England Patriots

Petrino (2009-2014) 6 years- 2.83/year: 14 offense: 2 defense : 1 special teams: ARD-4.71
2014   5   19   159   Chris Smith   DE   Jacksonville Jaguars
2014   7   13   228   Zach Hocker   K   Washington Redskins
2014   3   12   76   Travis Swanson   C   Detroit Lions
2014   7   12   227   Kiero Small   FB   Seattle Seahawks
2013   4   15   112   Tyler Wilson   QB   Oakland Raiders
2013   3   34   96   Knile Davis   RB   Kansas City Chiefs
2013   7   16   222   Chris Gragg   TE   Buffalo Bills
2013   6   29   197   Cobi Hamilton   WR   Cincinnati Bengals
2012   3   27   90   Jake Bequette   DE   New England Patriots
2012   4   9   104   Joe Adams   WR   Carolina Panthers
2012   4   23   118   Jarius Wright   WR   Minnesota Vikings
2012   4   39   134   Greg Childs   WR   Minnesota Vikings
2011   6   3   168   DeMarcus Love   T   Minnesota Vikings
2011   3   10   74   Ryan Mallett   QB   New England Patriots
2011   5   10   141   D.J. Williams   TE   Green Bay Packers
2010   5   16   147   Mitch Petrus   G   New York Giants
2009   4   6   106   Jonathan Luigs   C   Cincinnati Bengals

Nutt(2003-2008) 6 years: 3.33/yr: 10 Offensive:  10 Defense: ARD-3.65
2008   3   27   90   Marcus Harrison   DT   Chicago Bears
2008   7   4   211   Nate Garner   T   New York Jets
2008   1   4   4   Darren McFadden   RB   Oakland Raiders
2008   1   22   22   Felix Jones   RB   Dallas Cowboys
2008   7   20   227   Peyton Hillis   FB   Denver Broncos
2008   7   41   248   Marcus Monk   WR   Chicago Bears
2007   2   9   41   Chris Houston   DB   Atlanta Falcons
2007   1   8   8   Jamaal Anderson   DE   Atlanta Falcons
2007   7   38   248   Keith Jackson, Jr.   DT   St. Louis Rams
2007   2   10   42   Tony Ugoh   T   Indianapolis Colts
2006   7   46   254   Vickiel Vaughn   DB   San Francisco 49ers
2005   5   23   159   Jeb Huckeba   LB   Seattle Seahawks
2005   1   21   21   Matt Jones   WR   Jacksonville Jaguars
2004   1   25   25   Ahmad Carroll   DB   Green Bay Packers
2004   3   17   80   Caleb Miller   LB   Cincinnati Bengals
2004   5   28   160   Tony Bua   LB   Miami Dolphins
2004   1   16   16   Shawn Andrews   G   Philadelphia Eagles
2004   6   12   177   Bo Lacy   T   Pittsburgh Steelers
2004   4   32   128   Cedric Cobbs   RB   New England Patriots
2003   2   10   42   Ken Hamlin   DB   Seattle Seahawks

Offline Snowman Slayer

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 01:59:06 PM »
..
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:02:46 PM by Snowman Slayer »

Offline hit_that_line

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 02:02:33 PM »
Like 8 of those guys were Petrino recruits. Bert can’t evaluate for shit. Glad we didn’t need that CB from Northside who starts for OU as a freshman.
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Online 1st_down_streak

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 02:05:39 PM »
So my first guess was that player development had taken a huge hit, but that appears to not be true.  His recruiting classes overall here in Arkansas are better than that of Nutt and teh Petrion, he's getting more players drafted per year as well.  The only thing you could say in terms of NFL development was that Petrinos were averaging a slightly better 4th round average draft position while Bert's were getting drafted average of 5th round- still very close. 

I think this is an open shut case of Bert's scheme sucking a bag of dicks.



Man, that is depressing.
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Offline The Red Death

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2017, 02:06:56 PM »
Donuts scheme was to run I-formation power with play action against the SEC.   :haironfire: 

We were doomed from the start and we knew it didn’t make sense.  Now, there were some who believed Donuts was a player developer and would turn us into Miami north with his Florida kids.

I will pause while we all have a good laugh.  Or cry.  Whatever.
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Online Mike Slive

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2017, 02:17:59 PM »
Donuts scheme was to run I-formation power with play action against the SEC.   :haironfire: 

We were doomed from the start and we knew it didn’t make sense.  Now, there were some who believed Donuts was a player developer and would turn us into Miami north with his Florida kids.

I will pause while we all have a good laugh.  Or cry.  Whatever.

Nah, just log back in as Boondoggle so you can repost your same shitpost again.  :stache:

Offline The Red Death

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« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:55:33 PM by The Red Death »
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Offline authorhawgerelli

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 03:02:54 PM »
Thought of you Bielema supporters when I saw this, better get that hose! 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2FTFtLHn3pzSe0E%2Fgiphy.gif&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fgiphy.com%2Fgifs%2Feleven-bret-bielema-TFtLHn3pzSe0E&docid=Af759hvpat-IPM&tbnid=Msd9zXYGPQgFBM%3A&vet=1&w=500&h=281&hl=en-US&bih=660&biw=414&ved=0ahUKEwiU1Yb2-L7XAhWnv1QKHe46B7gQxiAIGigA&iact=c&ictx=1

Is there anybody who actually supports Bielema returning as our coach?  Just because I don't call him fat, and constantly whine for a new coach doesn't mean I think he needs to be our coach next year.

I think it is a done deal he is finished.

Offline TexZilla

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 03:54:59 PM »
Donuts scheme was to run I-formation power with play action against the SEC.   :haironfire: 

We were doomed from the start and we knew it didn’t make sense.  Now, there were some who believed Donuts was a player developer and would turn us into Miami north with his Florida kids.

I will pause while we all have a good laugh.  Or cry.  Whatever.

Actually it wasn't, and frankly, the scheme is less important than execution and team play regardless of level.  I still believe that had Bret actually executed his initial vision of balanced offense, with a powerful o line driving a hard hitting run game with an open passing game would work.  Hmmm basically the same pro set that JFB installed.

The problem with it is that Bret doesn't teach team play, accountability, and hard work in practice.  Doesn't understand defense in the least or how each platoon helps the other.  Complete ineptitude with special teams. Complete fail in personnel placement in game or in development.

I want a good coach.  If he succeeds here with the flying wedge and the wing T and wins I'm in. 

Offline acater

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 04:01:59 PM »
1/3rd of Nutt's four and five star recruits over his last five years here either never made it to campus or transferred out. WOW.
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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 04:19:33 PM »
So my first guess was that player development had taken a huge hit, but that appears to not be true.  His recruiting classes overall here in Arkansas are better than that of Nutt and teh Petrion, he's getting more players drafted per year as well.  The only thing you could say in terms of NFL development was that Petrinos were averaging a slightly better 4th round average draft position while Bert's were getting drafted average of 5th round- still very close. 

I think this is an open shut case of Bert's scheme sucking a bag of dicks.

Bert's players drafted(2015-2017) 3 years: 4.33/year:  7 Offensive: 6 Defensive: ARD-5.08
2017   6   21   205   Jeremiah Ledbetter   DE   Detroit Lions
2017   4   25   131   Deatrich Wise Jr.   DE   New England Patriots
2017   5   10   154   Jeremy Sprinkle   TE   Washington Redskins
2016   5   17   156   Jonathan Williams   RB   Buffalo Bills
2016   5   32   171   Alex Collins   RB   Seattle Seahawks
2016   6   18   193   Sebastian Tretola   G   Tennessee Titans
2016   6   26   201   Brandon Allen   QB   Jacksonville Jaguars
2016   2   4   35   Hunter Henry   TE   San Diego Chargers
2015   4   2   101   Trey Flowers   DE   New England Patriots
2015   5   5   141   Martrell Spaight   LB   Washington Redskins
2015   6   6   182   Tevin Mitchel   CB   Washington Redskins
2015   6   16   192   Darius Philon   DT   San Diego Chargers
2015   6   26   202   AJ Derby   TE   New England Patriots

Petrino (2009-2014) 6 years- 2.83/year: 14 offense: 2 defense : 1 special teams: ARD-4.71
2014   5   19   159   Chris Smith   DE   Jacksonville Jaguars
2014   7   13   228   Zach Hocker   K   Washington Redskins
2014   3   12   76   Travis Swanson   C   Detroit Lions
2014   7   12   227   Kiero Small   FB   Seattle Seahawks
2013   4   15   112   Tyler Wilson   QB   Oakland Raiders
2013   3   34   96   Knile Davis   RB   Kansas City Chiefs
2013   7   16   222   Chris Gragg   TE   Buffalo Bills
2013   6   29   197   Cobi Hamilton   WR   Cincinnati Bengals
2012   3   27   90   Jake Bequette   DE   New England Patriots
2012   4   9   104   Joe Adams   WR   Carolina Panthers
2012   4   23   118   Jarius Wright   WR   Minnesota Vikings
2012   4   39   134   Greg Childs   WR   Minnesota Vikings
2011   6   3   168   DeMarcus Love   T   Minnesota Vikings
2011   3   10   74   Ryan Mallett   QB   New England Patriots
2011   5   10   141   D.J. Williams   TE   Green Bay Packers
2010   5   16   147   Mitch Petrus   G   New York Giants
2009   4   6   106   Jonathan Luigs   C   Cincinnati Bengals

Nutt(2003-2008) 6 years: 3.33/yr: 10 Offensive:  10 Defense: ARD-3.65
2008   3   27   90   Marcus Harrison   DT   Chicago Bears
2008   7   4   211   Nate Garner   T   New York Jets
2008   1   4   4   Darren McFadden   RB   Oakland Raiders
2008   1   22   22   Felix Jones   RB   Dallas Cowboys
2008   7   20   227   Peyton Hillis   FB   Denver Broncos
2008   7   41   248   Marcus Monk   WR   Chicago Bears
2007   2   9   41   Chris Houston   DB   Atlanta Falcons
2007   1   8   8   Jamaal Anderson   DE   Atlanta Falcons
2007   7   38   248   Keith Jackson, Jr.   DT   St. Louis Rams
2007   2   10   42   Tony Ugoh   T   Indianapolis Colts
2006   7   46   254   Vickiel Vaughn   DB   San Francisco 49ers
2005   5   23   159   Jeb Huckeba   LB   Seattle Seahawks
2005   1   21   21   Matt Jones   WR   Jacksonville Jaguars
2004   1   25   25   Ahmad Carroll   DB   Green Bay Packers
2004   3   17   80   Caleb Miller   LB   Cincinnati Bengals
2004   5   28   160   Tony Bua   LB   Miami Dolphins
2004   1   16   16   Shawn Andrews   G   Philadelphia Eagles
2004   6   12   177   Bo Lacy   T   Pittsburgh Steelers
2004   4   32   128   Cedric Cobbs   RB   New England Patriots
2003   2   10   42   Ken Hamlin   DB   Seattle Seahawks

Some of those guys listed in Bert's section were recruited by Petrino.  Still, it doesn't really matter.  Until this year's product, most complaints about Bielema did not include anything about his recruiting.  Most of them, and rightfully so, were about his piss poor game management.

Looking back, it's probably good that we blew those two leads at the end of last year.  If we had won 9 last year, he'd probably be given a pass this year and it would have just prolonged the agony. 
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Offline Phat_Hawg

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Re: Bielema's Recruiting
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 04:25:33 PM »
Some of those guys listed in Bert's section were recruited by Petrino.  Still, it doesn't really matter.  Until this year's product, most complaints about Bielema did not include anything about his recruiting.  Most of them, and rightfully so, were about his piss poor game management.

Looking back, it's probably good that we blew those two leads at the end of last year.  If we had won 9 last year, he'd probably be given a pass this year and it would have just prolonged the agony.

Bielema's first couple of classes were pretty stout.  Since then pretty meh.  Makes me wonder if he got lazy and just started recruiting by rankings instead of how they would fit their schemes.
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