Players earning from their likeness (the NIL thread)

[Hogustus]

OK, let them make money but pay for their own school. See how long this shit lasts.

There are lots of rules about scholarships and what you can and cant do. You cant have an ROTC scholarship and be in the National Guard. You cant have an academic scholarship and be on the football team.

Everyone else:  Very few players will make much at all from this.

Acater:  Hurr durr, all the players should play their own way.

ROTC and National Guard issues are decided by DoD and Congress.  That's got nothing to do with schools, other than them happily accepting money and in exchange providing classroom, office and other necessary space.

NCAA put restrictions on athletic scholarships, especially around football, because certain teams were using academic scholarships to augment their pool of football players.  When the NCAA caught on to that, those same teams started using scholarships for other sports to do the same thing.  That got shut down as well. 

I don't understand why you're so against athletes getting a piece of what is a very large pie for P5 conferences.  Is the strain of watching semi-pro vs amateur sports just too much to bear?  Honestly, as fans, I can't imagine anything is going to change, other than we will see a few players on commercials and print ads.

As for paying their own way, very few would be able to do that.  Certainly not at more expensive schools like Vandy, Georgetown and Stanford.  Why do you want to shut down college athletics? 

[acater]

Everyone else:  Very few players will make much at all from this.

Acater:  Hurr durr, all the players should play their own way.

ROTC and National Guard issues are decided by DoD and Congress.  That's got nothing to do with schools, other than them happily accepting money and in exchange providing classroom, office and other necessary space.

NCAA put restrictions on athletic scholarships, especially around football, because certain teams were using academic scholarships to augment their pool of football players.  When the NCAA caught on to that, those same teams started using scholarships for other sports to do the same thing.  That got shut down as well. 

I don't understand why you're so against athletes getting a piece of what is a very large pie for P5 conferences.  Is the strain of watching semi-pro vs amateur sports just too much to bear?  Honestly, as fans, I can't imagine anything is going to change, other than we will see a few players on commercials and print ads.

As for paying their own way, very few would be able to do that.  Certainly not at more expensive schools like Vandy, Georgetown and Stanford.  Why do you want to shut down college athletics?

My point is that people saying "no one else cant go do whatever they want.... blah blah blah" isnt true.

And killing college sports is the last thing I want to do. You want to open college athletes up to getting paid, THAT will kill college sports. It'll turn college sports into AAU basketball. You want these kids to get paid, start a fucking minor league and let them live like minor league baseball players live. let the kids decide if they want to go make money now or go get an education and play in college first, just like basbeall players have to decide.

This whole "it will only affect a few players" is bullshit and people that think this would actually benefit Arkansas athletics are even more retarded. "We have WALLL MARTS!" is fucking stupid. The city of Miami has more people and money than our entire state. Just imagine what they would be able to do with an open table like this.  USC... holy shit, they would be undefeated for the rest of time. 

[SteveJ]

Sorry if I'm missing what you are trying to point out.  EA stopped making games because the NCAA pulled out because they didn't want players being paid.  You just said that anything user generated wouldn't apply.  If it is that simple then why not make all "players" generic to the point that everything has to be user generated?  Problem solved right?  I'm really not trying to argue just to argue.  I'm missing your point...obviously.

They simply stopped to avoid all possible unforeseen repercussions (lawsuits). Now that the lawsuit is wrapping up, they'll move forward. No matter how the lawsuit ends. They needed to know what was ok and not ok from a legal standpoint.

I would assume that they and their lawyers probably kicked around a full generic roster and nixed it for some reason. The link to the Google search was to maybe help you find the answer. We were doing that previous conversation during lunch and then lunch was over and I had only gotten through that one article.

So maybe your answer is in there.

I think you think I'm being a dick about this....and I'm not intending to be. We're just talking about it.

[SteveJ]

Here you go.

https://www.operationsports.com/ea-sports-college-football-faq-heres-what-to-know-so-far/#:~:text=EA%20wanted%20to%20pay%20the,do%20was%20use%20generic%20rosters.

What will be different from NCAA Football 14 when it comes to rosters?

A lot as of now, but there’s a lot of time left for this stuff to change. Again, we’ll get to the athletes more in the legal article, but it’s entirely possible we could have a full set of “real” college rosters when EA Sports College Football comes out. We also might just have select real players in the game at that point. We also might have no real players in the game, which is the plan as of now.

Again, from The Washington Post:

“Weber said the game’s rosters will be composed of players with randomly generated names, numbers and attributes, thereby avoiding potential infringement on any current players’ name, image, or likeness rights.”

In other words, don’t expect to be using Tim Tebow in everything but name. EA was sued for a reason, and the company is not going to put itself in that position again. This also means we probably won’t have “Tebow” in the audio files like we did with NCAA Football, and other things like that will apply elsewhere.

So does this mean no Roster Share?

I don’t see how Roster Share is included as of now. We can look at NBA 2K, Madden, and The Show and say those games allow you to create college teams and share them through online services provided by those franchises, but there’s still a layer of difference there. While EA can maybe say it’s not responsible for what we do with the rosters after buying the game, if the college athletes see that they’re being frozen out yet again as many of us easily share “authentic” rosters like we used to in NCAA Football, there’s going to be another potential legal battle. You can even see it in the aftermath of this announcement with Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy criticizing EA and the NCAA for trying to cut athletes out of the deal.

“Cutting athletes out of this reboot so they aren’t responsible for paying them for their likeness is a grave injustice.”

There’s clearly a reason a lot of these smaller football games from indie developers don’t include a roster share feature, and it absolutely has to do with legal liability. Perhaps 2K and EA feel comfortable enough avoiding litigation in their pro titles when it comes to us creating and sharing our college athlete creations, but I don’t think the same would apply here.

Longtime sports business reporter Darren Rovell feels this is the direction EA will take as well to avoid any legal hassle:

[Hogustus]

You want to open college athletes up to getting paid, THAT will kill college sports.

This whole "it will only affect a few players" is bullshit and people that think this would actually benefit Arkansas athletics are even more retarded.

I'm going to need to see your work on these two points.  There's no evidence on either of them because it's never been tried.  However, I've seen no well-reasoned argument saying that this is going to "kill college sports."  I also don't see how this is going to benefit, say, the 3rd string linebacker or the deep snapper.

[Law_Hawg]

Let's take this shirt that I just ran across on Facebook.



Currently, none of the players depicted on that shirt could make any kind of money off of it, even if whoever created it sold 100,000 units.  With laws allowing them to profit off their likenesses, they  each could contract out for the right to use their likeness and name and probably get something upfront and a maybe share of the sales. 

[Son_of_Spam]

I'm going to need to see your work on these two points.  There's no evidence on either of them because it's never been tried.  However, I've seen no well-reasoned argument saying that this is going to "kill college sports."  I also don't see how this is going to benefit, say, the 3rd string linebacker or the deep snapper.

Rhe third string could then borrow money from the first string. 

[Hogustus]

Rhe third string could then borrow money from the first string. 

Now you're just introducing amateur banking to the world.  That will destroy everything.

[Animal]

Let's take this shirt that I just ran across on Facebook.



Currently, none of the players depicted on that shirt could make any kind of money off of it, even if whoever created it sold 100,000 units.  With laws allowing them to profit off their likenesses, they  each could contract out for the right to use their likeness and name and probably get something upfront and a maybe share of the sales.

Clearly that's Photoshop trash right there but I did see it making the rounds on facebook.

[HOGGLY WOGGLY]

Clearly that's Photoshop trash right there but I did see it making the rounds on facebook.

Was it the caucasion hands that gave it away? 

[Animal]

Was it the caucasion hands that gave it away? 

That was part of my snap hypothesis

[bleedinred]

They simply stopped to avoid all possible unforeseen repercussions (lawsuits). Now that the lawsuit is wrapping up, they'll move forward. No matter how the lawsuit ends. They needed to know what was ok and not ok from a legal standpoint.

I would assume that they and their lawyers probably kicked around a full generic roster and nixed it for some reason. The link to the Google search was to maybe help you find the answer. We were doing that previous conversation during lunch and then lunch was over and I had only gotten through that one article.

So maybe your answer is in there.

I think you think I'm being a dick about this....and I'm not intending to be. We're just talking about it.

No worries. I was afraid you thought I was being an argumentative dick. As a gesture of good will I’m going to fire up NCAA 2014 and make you the coach of University of Memphis State University.  I’ll hold the $5 I owe you for your likeness until we see how your record goes over the next few seasons.

[SteveJ]

No worries. I was afraid you thought I was being an argumentative dick. As a gesture of good will I’m going to fire up NCAA 2014 and make you the coach of University of Memphis State University.  I’ll hold the $5 I owe you for your likeness until we see how your record goes over the next few seasons.

No. Make me the middle linebacker.

6'4" 255 MLB with 99 ratings on everything.

You're welcome.

[Law_Hawg]

Clearly that's Photoshop trash right there but I did see it making the rounds on facebook.

Real or not, it was useful for illustrative purposes.

[NostraHOGus]

Clearly that's Photoshop trash right there but I did see it making the rounds on facebook.

I'm pretty sure counsel was speaking hypothetically.

It was bad enough when EA and the NCAA were making skads of money while we had unnamed players like Matt Jones and Darren McFadden helping us compete against the Heisman winners on other teams, but when the punter on a college team gets in trouble for  making money on his youtube commentary or podcast, then we know it's gotten ridiculous.

The bottom line is that there is no comparable business model where teenagers make hundreds of millions of dollars for their institutions without being paid accordingly.  If you want to treat it like tips, just pool the money and distribute it evenly.

We all know that's not a good idea either.

I once defended the amateur model myself because I know how much money the cheaters are willing to pay, but the truth is, unless we allow players to profit to some extent, then we won't enjoy their services at the college level any more.

[VegasHog]

the flagship

https://arkansasrazorbacks.com/flagship-set-to-serve-razorback-student-athletes-in-nil-era/

[Lurk]

the flagship

https://arkansasrazorbacks.com/flagship-set-to-serve-razorback-student-athletes-in-nil-era/

That may contain the worst grammar in the history of college press releases.

"Housed under the newly created Office of Athlete Brand Development, Flagship will serve all Razorback student-athletes as an in-house resource for all things NIL-related in addition to collaborating in career development programming. The campus-wide program is led by Senior Associate Athletics Director – Athlete Brand Development & Inclusive Excellence Terry Prentice, Executive Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Sarah Goforth, Marketing & Creative Services Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Cari Humphry and Senior Assistant Dean for Student-Success and Chief Student Officer at the Walton College of Business Karen Boston."

[NotHereToMakeSense]

It reads like Sara’s sister helped write it

That may contain the worst grammar in the history of college press releases.

"Housed under the newly created Office of Athlete Brand Development, Flagship will serve all Razorback student-athletes as an in-house resource for all things NIL-related in addition to collaborating in career development programming. The campus-wide program is led by Senior Associate Athletics Director – Athlete Brand Development & Inclusive Excellence Terry Prentice, Executive Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Sarah Goforth, Marketing & Creative Services Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Cari Humphry and Senior Assistant Dean for Student-Success and Chief Student Officer at the Walton College of Business Karen Boston."

[TexZilla]

That may contain the worst grammar in the history of college press releases.

"Housed under the newly created Office of Athlete Brand Development, Flagship will serve all Razorback student-athletes as an in-house resource for all things NIL-related in addition to collaborating in career development programming. The campus-wide program is led by Senior Associate Athletics Director – Athlete Brand Development & Inclusive Excellence Terry Prentice, Executive Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Sarah Goforth, Marketing & Creative Services Director from the Office of Entrepreneurship and Innovation at the U of A Cari Humphry and Senior Assistant Dean for Student-Success and Chief Student Officer at the Walton College of Business Karen Boston."

This sounds like another way for money to be taken from athletes.  Do I have to go through Flagship and how much does it cost?  Sounds like they are serving as the "legal" agent which will have to monetize from someone.  if the golf team is invited to be the "pros" at the Tyson golf outing, does Tyson have to go through Flagship, or pay honorariums?

[1st_down_streak]

It reads like Sara’s sister helped write it

Sara's sister is Robyn. Robyn has direct ties to someone well known by sons of dicks everywhere.

[VegasHog]

schools can't touch a penny of any contract players may make, just like the players can't use the school in their deals. bama came out with their program maybe two weeks ago and i believe arkansas is the 2nd to officially announce something like it.

this is similar to what ,say the nfl, does with rookies. it's a seminar type of deal, and if anything it gets these companies in front of the players.

[Hogtired]

This is another example of the rich getting richer. The average player might make a few bucks until he gets taxed. Self employment, fica, income... A whole new world for sure.

[bleedinred]

I bet 99% of the players don't make more than $600 a year on this if they even make a dime at all.  I’ll go so far as to say that even the best athlete in the most popular sport won’t make much money too.

Who is the back woods car dealership hiring for their PT Cruiser ads? 

Going to be some pretty disappointed players.

I’m assuming this doesn’t turn into a pay for play type situation.

[TexZilla]

This is another example of the rich getting richer. The average player might make a few bucks until he gets taxed. Self employment, fica, income... A whole new world for sure.

This is the point of all this.  Its real life.  Many of these folks have already worked at the Dairy Queen or the WalMarts.  The point is they now can, vs rules saying they can’t.  The market will settle this pretty quickly. 

[DrMongoose]

I bet 99% of the players don't make more than $600 a year on this if they even make a dime at all.  I’ll go so far as to say that even the best athlete in the most popular sport won’t make much money too.

Who is the back woods car dealership hiring for their PT Cruiser ads? 

Going to be some pretty disappointed players.

I’m assuming this doesn’t turn into a pay for play type situation.

I would agree. without being able to use the university marks or identification, that student-athlete is going to have to have serious name recognition to make it worth anything for the sponsor.
kinda of amazing how this has ramped up into a cottage industry and despite having so many firms to choose from or partner with (they are going to have to get paid too to pay their bills, funding, employees, etc), no one has any idea how this is going to play out and if it is even going to be profitable.

I am surprised Learfield IMG College hasn't gotten involved since they already have multiple sponsorship relations in place.
As someone noted, how will it play out when a SA is promoting a brand/product that is rival to the official brand/product of Razorback Athletics?