Woopig.net

Razorback-Related => Razorback Discussion => Topic started by: Count Porkula on February 15, 2012, 10:23:18 AM

Title: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Count Porkula on February 15, 2012, 10:23:18 AM
Feds break up big drug ring on TCU campus - arrest 17 students including 4 football players.   :stunned:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/15/3736441/many-current-tcu-students-arrested.html
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on February 15, 2012, 10:34:19 AM
Feds break up big drug ring on TCU campus - arrest 17 students including 4 football players.   :stunned:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/15/3736441/many-current-tcu-students-arrested.html

I had no idea that Mallett and Mustain were going to TCU...
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: gmr0723 on February 15, 2012, 10:38:39 AM
So stupid kids with money and access to drugs distribute them on campus?   :shocker:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: FayettenamHog on February 15, 2012, 10:46:33 AM
TCU trying to blast Auburn's Fulmer Cup performance from last year.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: GuinnessHog on February 15, 2012, 10:58:33 AM
They're gonna have to get better at covering up their football players' crimes. That cover up is 2nd rate  :police:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Colboar on February 15, 2012, 11:03:37 AM
They're gonna have to get better at covering up their football players' crimes. That cover up is 2nd rate  :police:

I'm not sure the DEA is really into BCS coverups.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogofWar on February 15, 2012, 11:05:08 AM
Texas Cocaine University

Now we know how Gary Patterson was able to get some players on campus and why their university is ranked that low in the nation.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Sus-Scrofa on February 15, 2012, 11:05:35 AM
I'm not sure the DEA is really into BCS coverups.

Never would have happened in Bama.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: FayettenamHog on February 15, 2012, 11:19:45 AM
players involved:

Tanner Brock, AA LB
DJ Yendrey, all-conference DT
Devin Johnson, starting SS
Ty Horn, backup OT
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 15, 2012, 11:25:56 AM
The drugs being sold, including in hand-to-hand transactions to undercover officers, included marijuana, cocaine, acid, ecstacy and prescription drugs, McGee said.



TCU has always been the best place to get this (within driving distance  O0) going back to the 80s. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Clark on February 15, 2012, 11:29:02 AM
It was the eggrolls, not the ecstasy.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogofWar on February 15, 2012, 11:32:04 AM
It was the eggrolls, not the ecstasy.

To some, eggrolls are ecstasy.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Scotty Doesn't Know on February 15, 2012, 11:37:14 AM
I had no idea that Mallett and Mustain were going to TCU...

They only deal in scripts and Meff
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on February 15, 2012, 11:38:33 AM
They only deal in scripts and Meff

scripts are listed and I figured Mallett was branching out. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Das Uberschwein on February 15, 2012, 11:44:21 AM
Feds break up big drug ring on TCU campus - arrest 17 students including 4 football players.   :stunned:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/15/3736441/many-current-tcu-students-arrested.html

Last year, TCU was lauded in a "Sports Illustrated" article as the only top 25 team in the nation in 2010 with no players on its roster with criminal records.

New twist on the SI curse.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: mr.zorak on February 15, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
TCU trying to blast JawJah's Auburn's Fulmer Cup performance from last year.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Pork Soda on February 15, 2012, 11:49:14 AM


I musta stopped paying attention.  Did Jawja catch Allbarn in the Fulmer Cup?  I didn't think it was possible.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Colboar on February 15, 2012, 11:50:32 AM
I musta stopped paying attention.  Did Jawja catch Allbarn in the Fulmer Cup?  I didn't think it was possible.
Oldest police beats in the South.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Vito Porkleone on February 15, 2012, 12:08:01 PM
The drugs being sold, including in hand-to-hand transactions to undercover officers, included marijuana, cocaine, acid, ecstacy and prescription drugs, McGee said.



I think they call that fried sushi in Columbia. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on February 15, 2012, 12:36:34 PM
nope, didn't happen.  tcu is a christian university, they only allow christians to go there, and we all know christians don't do drugs. 

if it did happen, they need to fire patterson and hire a fine christian man to lead that team and keep them from going astray.  if not for the devils that had infiltrated that university and football team, god would have delivered them a national championship.  with a fine christian man leading the way and cleaning up the program, they will have nothing to stop them from winning it all.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogeye_Pierce on February 15, 2012, 12:50:42 PM
nope, didn't happen.  tcu is a christian university, they only allow christians to go there, and we all know christians don't do drugs. 

if it did happen, they need to fire patterson and hire a fine christian man to lead that team and keep them from going astray.  if not for the devils that had infiltrated that university and football team, god would have delivered them a national championship.  with a fine christian man leading the way and cleaning up the program, they will have nothing to stop them from winning it all.

PREACH IT BRUTHA!

(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/365030/nuttchoir_2.jpg)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 01:00:52 PM
Any major university in the usa could have this happen. Big deal.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: FayettenamHog on February 15, 2012, 01:05:35 PM
Any major university in the usa could have this happen. Big deal.

just because it could happen anywhere doesn't mean it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Aporkalypse_Now on February 15, 2012, 01:10:56 PM
People don't understand TCU.  It's not a pushy religious school.  Despite the name "Christian" in its name it's very laid back and nonreligious.  Almost in the way Hendrix being Methodist is, it's mostly a historical connection.

Baylor may not have Baptist in its name, but this happening there would be the hypocritical irony that most of you think it happening at TCU represents.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 01:36:00 PM
just because it could happen anywhere doesn't mean it's not a big deal.
No. Having students or athletes at your college commit armed robbery is a big deal. College kids smoking herb and doing blow is not.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 01:39:13 PM
People don't understand TCU.  It's not a pushy religious school.  Despite the name "Christian" in its name it's very laid back and nonreligious.  Almost in the way Hendrix being Methodist is, it's mostly a historical connection.

Baylor may not have Baptist in its name, but this happening there would be the hypocritical irony that most of you think it happening at TCU represents.
Indeed, my mother went to tcu in the early 70's and it was loosely associated with christianity back then. Oh and per her confirmation earlier today, peopel were smoking grass back then too.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Tusk till Dawn on February 15, 2012, 01:44:46 PM
No. Having students or athletes at your college commit armed robbery is a big deal. College kids smoking herb and doing blow is not.

Hey man, that's just the way it is, sometimes.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Twenty-year-old Corey Zickefoose was the victim of an alleged crime Thursday when three Tennessee football players were arrested on charges of armed robbery. Nu'Keese Richardson, Janzen Jackson and Michael Edwards allegedly held up Zickefoose with an air gun in what was later described as a "prank."

Intentions aside (as they do pave the road to Starkville), one would think Zickefoose would be in full-on lawyer mode, lining up a civil suit and pressing criminal charges. Or at least really angry. But no -- unbelievably, he's asking the university for leniency instead.

    "I think they should still be able to play football, regardless," he said. "Tennessee is my place. It's my football team."

    "Even after they put a gun in your face, you say let them play football?" 6 News asked.

    "Yeah, it's Tennessee. That's the way it is sometimes," Zickefoose said.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogofWar on February 15, 2012, 01:49:32 PM
People don't understand TCU.  It's not a pushy religious school.  Despite the name "Christian" in its name it's very laid back and nonreligious.  Almost in the way Hendrix being Methodist is, it's mostly a historical connection.

Baylor may not have Baptist in its name, but this happening there would be the hypocritical irony that most of you think it happening at TCU represents.

 I do not find it funny because of the word "Christian" in their name. I know well of their paying players back in the SWC days while living in Fort Worth.

 I just think it is funny because ESPiN and apparently SI drools all over them because of their rankings and not playing in BCS championships along with Boise. They regard them as better or equal to other universities in other conferences, but not allowed to prove it.

 I just think it is funny that they are just like everyone else, and now going to have to put up or shut up in the Texass league.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Ob Gyn Kenobi on February 15, 2012, 01:54:49 PM
This breaks my heart. I've known Ty Horn since he and my son were in kindergarten. His parents are great folks; he's been a really good kid.

I hope he was not deeply involved in all of this. Guess time will tell
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 01:57:02 PM
This breaks my heart. I've known Ty Horn since he and my son were in kindergarten. His parents are great folks; he's been a really good kid.

I hope he was not deeply involved in all of this. Guess time will tell
He will survive it was just drugs he didnt kill or rape anyone. Smoking some Grass or snorting some blow or rolling on ecstasy doesnt make one a bad person.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on February 15, 2012, 01:57:58 PM
He will survive it was just drugs he didnt kill or rape anyone. Smoking some Grass or snorting some blow or rolling on ecstasy doesnt make one a bad person.

The draftniks on Mallett's jock would like a word or two.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 02:00:42 PM
The draftniks on Mallett's jock would like a word or two.
I am just saying doing drugs in college doesnt define a person like killing or raping someone in college does.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 15, 2012, 02:07:12 PM
He will survive it was just drugs he didnt kill or rape anyone. Smoking some Grass or snorting some blow or rolling on ecstasy doesnt make one a bad person.

Even though you have said this about 22 times from what I've read none of these kids were arrested for smoking some grass or snorting some blow, they were arrested for selling and distributing it.  Big difference.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: gmr0723 on February 15, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
This breaks my heart. I've known Ty Horn since he and my son were in kindergarten. His parents are great folks; he's been a really good kid.

I hope he was not deeply involved in all of this. Guess time will tell

PC Affidavit & Arrest Warrant for Brock.  Horn is implicated and could face several counts of delivery.

http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2012/02/15/11/20/5m7vO.So.58.PDF
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: young_hog_fan on February 15, 2012, 02:13:11 PM
Don't know about anybody else but I want to party with subliznime!!
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 02:18:23 PM
Even though you have said this about 22 times from what I've read none of these kids were arrested for smoking some grass or snorting some blow, they were arrested for selling and distributing it.  Big difference.
Not that big of a difference. Still not a big deal to me. To the law its definitely different. The war on drugs is dumb.
Id rather my kid get caught selling drugs than attempting to rob someone with an air pistol.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 15, 2012, 02:20:04 PM
Id rather my kid get caught selling drugs than attempting to rob someone with an air pistol.

Personally I'd rather my kid get caught for neither.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: hogsfan4life on February 15, 2012, 02:24:03 PM
Not that big of a difference. Still not a big deal to me. To the law its definitely different. The war on drugs is dumb.
Id rather my kid get caught selling drugs than attempting to rob someone with an air pistol.

I'd beat the shit out of him if he was caught doing either.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 15, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
I'd beat the aMm out of him if he was caught doing either.

Exactly. How you going to make a living if your son lost all your product in a DEA sting? DAMN.

It's nice to know that 17 young people will now forever be known as felons thanks to this work. 

...meanwhile 17 NEW felons pop up to replace the outgoing ones. Such a fucking waste of my money (war on drugs).
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 02:35:15 PM
Personally I'd rather my kid get caught for neither.
Let me rephrase. If i had a kid, and i don't, and that hypothetical kid i had made a mistake(which we all know is crazy because no kid I will ever have will make mistakes) id prefer it to be drugs are ok mistake not the homicidal robbery mistake.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Ty Webb on February 15, 2012, 02:41:47 PM
In related non-news (but maybe it should be), have the Hogs had any arrests since Oden back in Aug-Sept? I don't remember any. Funny, how we don't see any articles commending the players for their good behavior because we know damn well if 1 of them messes up they will all be condemned for it in the media as running amok.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 02:44:04 PM
In related non-news (but maybe it should be), have the Hogs had any arrests since Oden back in Aug-Sept? I don't remember any. Funny, how we don't see any articles commending the players for their good behavior because we know damn well if 1 of them messes up they will all be condemned for it in the media as running amok.
:thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Clark on February 15, 2012, 03:03:18 PM
Don't all of you see the underlying problem here? Pay the athletes!!!

Watch this angle unfold as this progresses.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 15, 2012, 04:12:32 PM
I am just saying doing drugs in college doesnt define a person like killing or raping someone in college does.

Right.  It's TCU, not Baylor
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: rzrbkfan69 on February 15, 2012, 04:21:58 PM
In related non-news (but maybe it should be), have the Hogs had any arrests since Oden back in Aug-Sept? I don't remember any. Funny, how we don't see any articles commending the players for their good behavior because we know damn well if 1 of them messes up they will all be condemned for it in the media as running amok.

Cue the FPD. There will now be extra officers out patroling the streets looking for those "thug football players" since it's been awhile.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: asshat on February 15, 2012, 04:27:50 PM
No. Having students or athletes at your college dealing blow is a big deal.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 05:05:25 PM
Even though you have said this about 22 times from what I've read none of these kids were arrested for smoking some grass or snorting some blow, they were arrested for selling and distributing it.  Big difference.

They were likely just trying to swing a free stash for themselves. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 05:08:37 PM
PC Affidavit & Arrest Warrant for Brock.  Horn is implicated and could face several counts of delivery.

http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2012/02/15/11/20/5m7vO.So.58.PDF

Jesus, and it's just for an ounce or so?  What a bunch of Texas horseshit.  Let 'em go.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 05:26:42 PM

Fascist!
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 05:29:30 PM
They were likely just trying to swing a free stash for themselves.
Thank you.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 15, 2012, 05:48:27 PM
Let me rephrase. If i had a kid, and i don't, and that hypothetical kid i had made a mistake(which we all know is crazy because no kid I will ever have will make mistakes) id prefer it to be drugs are ok mistake not the homicidal robbery mistake.
Why do you keep repeating this? I don't think anyone disagrees, but it really has nothing to do with this topic. Just because selling drugs is better than murder or rape, that doesn't make selling drugs like this ok.

Don't get me wrong, the whole war on drugs thing is a pretty big waste of money and I can't think of any reason marijuana should be harder to get than alcohol, but these kids had a business going where they were doing something they knew was very illegal and very stupid so it's hard to feel sorry for them. Regardless of what the laws and punishments for this should be, they knew what they were when they did it and deserve whatever punishment they get.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 05:59:05 PM
Why do you keep repeating this? I don't think anyone disagrees, but it really has nothing to do with this topic. Just because selling drugs is better than murder or rape, that doesn't make selling drugs like this ok.

Don't get me wrong, the whole war on drugs thing is a pretty big waste of money and I can't think of any reason marijuana should be harder to get than alcohol, but these kids had a business going where they were doing something they knew was very illegal and very stupid so it's hard to feel sorry for them. Regardless of what the laws and punishments for this should be, they knew what they were when they did it and deserve whatever punishment they get.

You didn't read the pdf, did you?  I didn't see any mention of anything but pot in there, and from what I could decipher out of that uneducated Texican pukes writing, it was less than an ounce.  Am I missing something other than a sensationalist story on ESPiN?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: gambler on February 15, 2012, 06:09:55 PM
Am I missing something other than a sensationalist story on ESPiN?
Come on, they would never do that.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 15, 2012, 06:34:11 PM
amazed at some of you who think doing and selling drugs is no big deal...

smh
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Ty Webb on February 15, 2012, 07:04:52 PM
Per the twitters: Affadavit says TCU DB Devin Johnson told an undercover officer 82 TCU players failed a surprise drug test ordered by Gary Patterson Feb. 1.

FWSTelegram report says Patterson ordered drug test after prized recruit told him that he would not attend TCU bc of drug use by players.
 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Buffinator on February 15, 2012, 07:10:44 PM
amazed at some of you who think doing and selling drugs is no big deal...

smh

roofies are drugs too, man
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 07:15:58 PM
Why do you keep repeating this? I don't think anyone disagrees, but it really has nothing to do with this topic. Just because selling drugs is better than murder or rape, that doesn't make selling drugs like this ok.

Don't get me wrong, the whole war on drugs thing is a pretty big waste of money and I can't think of any reason marijuana should be harder to get than alcohol, but these kids had a business going where they were doing something they knew was very illegal and very stupid so it's hard to feel sorry for them. Regardless of what the laws and punishments for this should be, they knew what they were when they did it and deserve whatever punishment they get.
What do you mean by 'drugs like this'? Weed ? Are you fucking kidding me. ?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 07:18:34 PM
amazed at some of you who think doing and selling drugs is no big deal...

smh
I am amazed at a grown man who uses 'smh' like a 14 year old girl.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: deesnutts on February 15, 2012, 07:37:00 PM
The drugs being sold, including in hand-to-hand transactions to undercover officers, included marijuana, cocaine, acid, ecstacy and prescription drugs, McGee said.



TCU has always been the best place to get this (within driving distance  O0) going back to the 80s.

ithink i may know you now...  ;)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 15, 2012, 07:55:42 PM
ithink i may know you now...  ;)

keep it on the downlow.  I'm legit these days.   :angel:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 15, 2012, 08:02:15 PM
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2012/2/15/2800178/fulmer-cupdate-tcu-special-edition

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 15, 2012, 08:16:10 PM
I am amazed at a grown man who uses 'smh' like a 14 year old girl.
smh
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogofWar on February 15, 2012, 08:16:49 PM
http://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2012/2/15/2800178/fulmer-cupdate-tcu-special-edition

TCU will be NCAA champions of at least one thing this year.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 08:31:23 PM
Quote from: HipHog link=topic=78887.mTsg1484532#msg1484532 date=1329358570
smh
Simply amazing!
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 08:33:16 PM
amazed at some of you who think doing and selling drugs is no big deal...

smh

All I've seen is weed.  They're talking all sort of shit about coke and X and such in the press, but that affidavit said weed, only weed, and less than an ounce of it at that.  If that's all there is, then there are no drugs involved.  Just weed.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 15, 2012, 08:36:12 PM
All I've seen is weed.  They're talking all sort of aMm about coke and X and such in the press, but that affidavit said weed, only weed, and less than an ounce of it at that.  If that's all there is, then there are no drugs involved.  Just weed.
hmm, last i knew "weed" was considered a drug
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 08:37:58 PM
hmm, last i knew "weed" was considered a drug

Only by morons and cops.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: asshat on February 15, 2012, 08:40:35 PM
Only by morons and cops.
I'm sure if he explains it that way to the judge he will be released post haste.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 15, 2012, 08:41:07 PM
Only by morons and cops.
yup, thats the only two...
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 15, 2012, 08:43:35 PM
yup, thats the only two...

Oh, sorry, I forgot Texans.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 15, 2012, 08:49:53 PM
morons

Oh, sorry, I forgot Texans.

No you didn't. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 15, 2012, 08:51:44 PM
yup, thats the only two...
Narc
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Pumpkin Escobar on February 15, 2012, 09:23:12 PM
hmm, last i knew "weed" was considered a drug

There is a reason nobody ever invited you to parties.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 15, 2012, 09:33:44 PM
There is a reason nobody ever invited you to parties.
you dont know what you're talking about.i use to run this high school...a thousand friends, a million parties
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on February 15, 2012, 09:42:25 PM
PREACH IT BRUTHA!

(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/365030/nuttchoir_2.jpg)

just doin my part to kick the head down the street so we can watch it roll a little longer.

and regarding all the drugs talk in this thread...didn't read the pdf, don't really give a fuck, its college and 18 to 20 yr olds doing what they do.  I could list more than 17 people I went to high school with that were dealing more serious shit than weed while they were in high school, and more than an ounce. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Ty Webb on February 15, 2012, 09:55:30 PM
I am amazed at a grown man who uses 'smh' like a 14 year old girl.
C'mon, HipHog has to keep up his street cred with his target audience.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogtired on February 15, 2012, 10:26:35 PM
He will survive it was just drugs he didnt kill or rape anyone. Smoking some Grass or snorting some blow or rolling on ecstasy doesnt make one a bad person.

Did any one inhale?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 07:24:58 AM
amazed at some of you who think doing and selling drugs is no big deal...

smh

If it's good enough for Portugal, it's good enough for me!  O0
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 16, 2012, 08:03:37 AM
If it's good enough for Portugal, it's good enough for me!  O0

Check out their crime rate since they legalized everything.  It's gone way down, especially burglary and violent crimes.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 08:15:23 AM
Check out their crime rate since they legalized everything.  It's gone way down, especially burglary and violent crimes.

That was kinda my point.

Oh, and their HIV rate has gone way down too.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Count Porkula on February 16, 2012, 08:48:29 AM
you dont know what you're talking about.i use to run this high school...a thousand friends, a million parties

 :thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 16, 2012, 08:50:35 AM
You didn't read the pdf, did you?  I didn't see any mention of anything but pot in there, and from what I could decipher out of that uneducated Texican pukes writing, it was less than an ounce.  Am I missing something other than a sensationalist story on ESPiN?
I hadn't read the .pdf then but I have now. But, the one I saw was only about one player. Maybe the news story I first read about this made up all the stuff about coke and x(no, it wasn't the espn story) and if so I'll agree this is much ado about nothing. My post was based on the assumption all the news reports were correct about the x and coke and other pills.

However, sublizme or whatever is still an idiot for trying to say having a drug ring that sells coke and x(because that's what the story was at the time) is ok because it's not murder or rape. Nobody ever said murder or rape were the same as this, but he keeps throwing that straw-man out there.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 09:16:44 AM
I find it funny that so many people are like, "Well they got what they deserved" anytime there's a drug bust, regardless of the magnitude of the substance. 

It, to me, is akin to justifying religious persecution prior to the 1st Amendment.  "Sorry - shouldn't have been Catholic!"

Laws change.  I'd rather hold steadfast in my disgust at arrests like these.  They are guilty because of the law.  They are not right/wrong because of the law. And in 30 years, when we can all drive down to the grocery store for an 1/8th, all of this will be even more ludicrous. I, simply, will never believe that filing felony claims in cases like this is a proportional response. 

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Law_Hawg on February 16, 2012, 10:07:53 AM


This is just another case of the old Sports Illustrated jinx. 

Last year, SI did a story on crime in college football.  TCU was the only team in the Top 25 that didn't have any football players who had been charged with a crime.

Here we are, less than a year after that story, and BAM . . . in one day TCU gets blown up.

SI article on crime and college football (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 16, 2012, 10:28:47 AM
Do I think using marijuana is that big a deal?  No.

Do I think it should be legalized?  Yes

Do I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and resources?  Absolutely

But I don't feel sorry for anyone arrested for it, especially selling it, because even though I don't think it's that big a deal everyone knows it's illegal and when you participate, again especially when you sell it, you run the risk of getting arrested.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 16, 2012, 10:34:46 AM
Do I think using marijuana is that big a deal?  No.

Do I think it should be legalized decriminalized?  Yes

Do I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and resources?  Absolutely

But I don't feel sorry for anyone arrested for it, especially selling it, because even though I don't think it's that big a deal everyone knows it's illegal and when you participate, again especially when you sell it, you run the risk of getting arrested.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 16, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
 accoording to the tcu police chief it wasnt just weed

The drugs involved included marijuana, cocaine, "molly" -- a powdered form of ecstacy, ecstacy pills, and prescription drugs like Xanax, Hydrocodone and Oxycontin, McGee said.

Read more on myFOXdfw.com: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/Texas-Christian-University-Students-Arrested-in-Drug-Sweep-021512#ixzz1mYzzpvwX
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Law_Hawg on February 16, 2012, 10:38:17 AM



In your view, what is the difference between "legalizing" and "decriminalizing"?

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 10:42:18 AM

In your view, what is the difference between "legalizing" and "decriminalizing"?

I'd like to know this too.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 10:46:23 AM
But I don't feel sorry for anyone arrested for it, especially selling it, because even though I don't think it's that big a deal everyone knows it's illegal and when you participate, again especially when you sell it, you run the risk of getting arrested.

If you feel like it should be legalized, then you must disagree with the legitimacy of it being considered criminal, no? So why wouldn't you feel for someone that will forever be known as a felon who got caught doing something that you don't think should be criminal in the first place?

I'm sure people used to get ticketed all the time for driving 70mph when the speed limit was 55.  They knew the law and they broke it. They got a ticket. THAT'S fine with me.

But sending someone to prison for shit like this?  1 ounce of weed? That doesn't seem proportional, especially knowing the adverse effects of alcohol and how they dwarf anything that's ever been proven regarding cannabis. Fucking Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon can eat a dick.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 16, 2012, 11:04:04 AM
If you feel like it should be legalized, then you must disagree with the legitimacy of it being considered criminal, no? So why wouldn't you feel for someone that will forever be known as a felon who got caught doing something that you don't think should be criminal in the first place?

I'm sure people used to get ticketed all the time for driving 70mph when the speed limit was 55.  They knew the law and they broke it. They got a ticket. THAT'S fine with me.

But sending someone to prison for shit like this?  1 ounce of weed? That doesn't seem proportional, especially knowing the adverse effects of alcohol and how they dwarf anything that's ever been proven regarding cannabis. Fucking Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon can eat a dick.

If it's their first offense and if the only item being sold was limited quantities of weed they probably will never see the inside of a prison. 

If there were real drugs involved, or if they have been busted for doing this before, they deserve any time they get. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 16, 2012, 11:19:51 AM

In your view, what is the difference between "legalizing" and "decriminalizing"?

perhaps a bit shortsighted, but when I hear legalizing, I envision government produced, regulated, and distributed products, like cigarettes. Burn regulators, arsenic, various phenolic compounds like benzene, and probably shwag quality? If I were a smoker, I'd rather get it from a buddy or grow my own than the man.

In contrast, i see decriminalizing simply no punishment for possession, or Starkville, even a ticket would be better than the cost of jailing someone for a non-violent offense.

I realize there holes in each argument.



Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: boomer_sooie on February 16, 2012, 11:20:14 AM



In your view, what is the difference between "legalizing" and "decriminalizing"?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEFB0ozhcUU&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEFB0ozhcUU&feature=related)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 11:40:27 AM
If it's their first offense and if the only item being sold was limited quantities of weed they probably will never see the inside of a prison. 

If there were real drugs involved, or if they have been busted for doing this before, they deserve any time they get.

Spend, spend, spend!  I wonder how much time and money the DEA spent on their 6 month investigation.  I wonder how much time and money the Feds will spend prosecuting these kids. 

And for what? What is the end game? Nothing.  They got a little weed and X off the streets?  Think there aren't alternatives out there already? Just get that occupancy level up in those prisons.  Gotta make sure we're above 90%! Nothing changes. Nothing. It's done nothing but get worse. 

So a kid gets busted with some arbitrary weight of MJ (I don't know what the Texas law is, but we'll say an ounce) that's above the threshold deemed for personal use.  So that kid with 1.1 ounces is now a dealer.  But it's his first offense.  So he gets a light sentence (maybe a fine and community service).  But that goes on his permanent record.  He's been convicted of a crime.  Welp.  So much for getting my degree.  Why go through the trouble if I won't be able to get a job now.  Might as well deal drugs.

I just don't get it. 

Meanwhile, if I'm 19 years old and get a DWI, all I get is a misdemeanor and some community service.  Hell, I can do that TWICE with no real consequences.  And that's putting the public in ACTUAL danger.  WHAT THE FUCK!? Someone wake me up.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 16, 2012, 02:27:58 PM
Spend, spend, spend!  I wonder how much time and money the DEA spent on their 6 month investigation.  I wonder how much time and money the Feds will spend prosecuting these kids. 

And for what? What is the end game? Nothing.  They got a little weed and X off the streets?  Think there aren't alternatives out there already? Just get that occupancy level up in those prisons.  Gotta make sure we're above 90%! Nothing changes. Nothing. It's done nothing but get worse. 

So a kid gets busted with some arbitrary weight of MJ (I don't know what the Texas law is, but we'll say an ounce) that's above the threshold deemed for personal use.  So that kid with 1.1 ounces is now a dealer.  But it's his first offense.  So he gets a light sentence (maybe a fine and community service).  But that goes on his permanent record.  He's been convicted of a crime.  Welp.  So much for getting my degree.  Why go through the trouble if I won't be able to get a job now.  Might as well deal drugs.

I just don't get it. 

Meanwhile, if I'm 19 years old and get a DWI, all I get is a misdemeanor and some community service.  Starkville, I can do that TWICE with no real consequences.  And that's putting the public in ACTUAL danger.  WHAT THE frick!? Someone wake me up.
I would wake you up but people that think like lashhog, phathog and dirkpiggler will still be around. I really thought most of this ideal would die off with the babyboomer generation but it is in full swing with people alive and well. Scary.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 16, 2012, 02:30:48 PM
they deserve any time they get.
Don't you worry you will get what you deserve as well.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 16, 2012, 02:33:59 PM
If you feel like it should be legalized, then you must disagree with the legitimacy of it being considered criminal, no? So why wouldn't you feel for someone that will forever be known as a felon who got caught doing something that you don't think should be criminal in the first place?

I'm sure people used to get ticketed all the time for driving 70mph when the speed limit was 55.  They knew the law and they broke it. They got a ticket. THAT'S fine with me.

But sending someone to prison for aMm like this?  1 ounce of weed? That doesn't seem proportional, especially knowing the adverse effects of alcohol and how they dwarf anything that's ever been proven regarding cannabis. fricking Nancy Reagan and Richard Nixon can eat a dick.
Just say no! (to drugs not legal to our government. But always say yes to getting help through the pharmaceutical industry!)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 16, 2012, 02:43:04 PM
Don't you worry you will get what you deserve as well.

I already have, and I'm enjoying the shit out of it. 

Hopefully you too can make it through your partying stage without OD'ing or getting busted. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 16, 2012, 02:57:37 PM
 :french
I already have, and I'm enjoying the aMm out of it. 

Hopefully you too can make it through your partying stage without OD'ing or getting busted.
Just because muzz, ocelot and i think it should be legalized doesnt mean we are sitting at home with needles hanging out of our arms. My partying years are passed me as well. Congratulations for surviving. I still enjoy a nice homebrew and a spliff. That for sure doesnt make me an overdosing criminal partier.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTat on February 16, 2012, 02:59:40 PM

In your view, what is the difference between "legalizing" and "decriminalizing"?

In my view, it would be keeping your job, and I live in a medical marijuana state. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35913492/ns/business-careers/t/wal-mart-worker-fired-over-medical-marijuana/#.Tz1tvcjL848

Quote
Joseph Casias has been legally using medical marijuana to deal with the gnawing pain caused by sinus cancer and an inoperable brain tumor pressing against his skull. He says he never used it when he was on duty as an associate at a Wal-Mart in Battle Creek, Mich, and he never went to work high.

But one morning he went to work and was fired for it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: authorhawgerelli on February 16, 2012, 03:46:37 PM
you dont know what you're talking about.i use to run this high school...a thousand friends, a million parties

Did you end up marrying Veronica Vaughn?  I know this guy who says she is one fine piece of ace, if you know what I mean.

By far, the most underrated movie of all time.

Billy likes to drink soda.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 16, 2012, 04:04:00 PM
I would wake you up but people that think like lashhog, phathog and dirkpiggler will still be around. I really thought most of this ideal would die off with the babyboomer generation but it is in full swing with people alive and well. Scary.

I don't normally do this but this seems to be an appropriate occassion:

 :suicide: ::) ???
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: gmr0723 on February 16, 2012, 04:08:05 PM
accoording to the tcu police chief it wasnt just weed

The drugs involved included marijuana, cocaine, "molly" -- a powdered form of ecstacy, ecstacy pills, and prescription drugs like Xanax, Hydrocodone and Oxycontin, McGee said.

Read more on myFOXdfw.com: http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/Texas-Christian-University-Students-Arrested-in-Drug-Sweep-021512#ixzz1mYzzpvwX

I think the drugs listed in this report were the subject of the arrests for the other 13 students.  I haven't seen anything to link the football players (yet) to anything but pot.  According to the article below, only 5 players tested positive at the February 1 screening.  Hopefully, this is the end of the doomsday scenario for the football program.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/16/3740268/source-5-tcu-players-failed-feb.html?storylink=addthis#.Tz1LUhM3M1E.facebook
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 16, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
I already have, and I'm enjoying the aMm out of it. 

Hopefully you too can make it through your partying stage without OD'ing or getting busted.

http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/100_die_from_tylenol_overdose_each_year_marijuana_zero
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 16, 2012, 05:09:14 PM
http://digg.com/newsbar/topnews/100_die_from_tylenol_overdose_each_year_marijuana_zero

My posts must not be compelling enough for people to read, because I swear I've mentioned multiple times that I'm against legalizing real drugs - not weed. 

Thanks for the information that, while interesting, is irrelevant to the post to which you replied. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 16, 2012, 05:13:12 PM
This may not have devolved into one the stupidest threads ever but it's knocking on the door.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 16, 2012, 05:16:37 PM
This may not have devolved into one the stupidest threads ever but it's knocking on the door.
because of the pot heads and hosers eh
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 16, 2012, 06:18:44 PM
My posts must not be compelling enough for people to read, because I swear I've mentioned multiple times that I'm against legalizing real drugs - not weed. 

Thanks for the information that, while interesting, is irrelevant to the post to which you replied.

More timeliness than relevance. It was on digg today. Didn't mean to imply you were referring to a weed od.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: RedRiverHog on February 16, 2012, 07:17:30 PM
perhaps a bit shortsighted, but when I hear legalizing, I envision government produced, regulated, and distributed products, like cigarettes. Burn regulators, arsenic, various phenolic compounds like benzene, and probably shwag quality? If I were a smoker, I'd rather get it from a buddy or grow my own than the man.

In contrast, i see decriminalizing simply no punishment for possession, or Starkville, even a ticket would be better than the cost of jailing someone for a non-violent offense.

I realize there holes in each argument.





Since when did the government start selling smokes?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: GeoHogsGeo on February 16, 2012, 07:33:16 PM
perhaps a bit shortsighted, but when I hear legalizing, I envision government produced, regulated, and distributed products, like cigarettes. Burn regulators, arsenic, various phenolic compounds like benzene, and probably shwag quality? If I were a smoker, I'd rather get it from a buddy or grow my own than the man.

In contrast, i see decriminalizing simply no punishment for possession, or Starkville, even a ticket would be better than the cost of jailing someone for a non-violent offense.

I realize there holes in each argument.

The one thing that marijuana has over the Marlboros, Winstons, and Camels of the world is that a simpleton with half a brain can develop a pretty decent crop of herb. Big Business folks haven't figured out how to legalized it and make it profitable for them.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 16, 2012, 07:53:39 PM
No. Having students or athletes at your college commit armed robbery is a big deal
Wait, are we talking about Auburn or Tennessee here? 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 16, 2012, 08:08:35 PM
You can read more here: http://woopig.net/board/index.php?topic=66561.0
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 16, 2012, 08:32:06 PM
Since when did the government start selling smokes?

Isn't about 60 percent of the cost of a pack of smokes government taxes? If so, I'd say that's at least a vested interest.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: izual65 on February 16, 2012, 08:40:43 PM


So a kid gets busted with some arbitrary weight of MJ (I don't know what the Texas law is, but we'll say an ounce) that's above the threshold deemed for personal use.  So that kid with 1.1 ounces is now a dealer.  But it's his first offense.  So he gets a light sentence (maybe a fine and community service).  But that goes on his permanent record.  He's been convicted of a crime.  Welp.  So much for getting my degree.  Why go through the trouble if I won't be able to get a job now.  Might as well deal drugs.

I just don't get it. 

I deal with prosecutors everyday. I'll be bringing this up for deferred adjudication arguments.  Good insight.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 16, 2012, 08:53:21 PM
I deal with prosecutors everyday. I'll be bringing this up for deferred adjudication arguments.  Good insight.

Goes to bed happy, says I.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Pumpkin Escobar on February 16, 2012, 09:26:05 PM
I think anytime we can get kids off college campuses and into prisons for non violent crimes, it's a victory for America.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 16, 2012, 09:32:24 PM
I think anytime we can get kids off college campuses and into prisons for non violent crimes, it's a victory for America.

Depends on if you're talking about Penn St.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 16, 2012, 09:36:45 PM
I think anytime we can get kids off college campuses and into prisons for non violent crimes, it's a victory for America.
Woopig is full of clever observers of irony these days.

It's like an Alannis Morrissette fanboy club up in here. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTat on February 16, 2012, 09:48:38 PM
It's like an Alannis Morrissette fanboy club up in here.

She's like... god.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 16, 2012, 09:51:30 PM
Woopig is full of clever observers of irony these days.

It's like an Alannis Morrissette fanboy club up in here.


You know how to spot them.  ;)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: RedRiverHog on February 16, 2012, 11:40:10 PM
Isn't about 60 percent of the cost of a pack of smokes government taxes? If so, I'd say that's at least a vested interest.

By that logic the government manufactures everything because they damn sure tax everything..
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: jesus on February 16, 2012, 11:58:09 PM

I'm sure if he explains it that way to the judge he will be released post haste.



Just do it this way...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AG0xyxlNXo

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 17, 2012, 09:01:49 AM
By that logic the government manufactures everything because they damn sure tax everything..

now you might be on to something there...

the federal government does possess warrants that would allow them to take a 79.9% ownership share in the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
They also now have GM and Crystler.
Not to mention generous assests in agriculture, water, and financial institutions.

...and to clarify, when I responded to 'selling smokes' I meant profiting copious amounts of cash without the tobacco company being a government sponsored enterprise. So, yes, I don't think hill staffers are rolling Marlboro's.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 17, 2012, 09:14:52 AM
:frenchJust because muzz, ocelot and i think it should be legalized doesnt mean we are sitting at home with needles hanging out of our arms. My partying years are passed me as well. Congratulations for surviving. I still enjoy a nice homebrew and a spliff. That for sure doesnt make me an overdosing criminal partier.

Go ahead and throw me in with you guys.  It should be legalized yesterday.

If I had known in college how serious these "crimes" were I might have been more careful but I still would hbe smoked weed.  I used to keep a QP around all the time just because it
Was cheaper in bulk.  Apparently that makes you a big time
Drug dealer.

Who knew, me and Pablo Escobar were one in the same.
 :suicide:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Tusk till Dawn on February 17, 2012, 09:50:52 AM
Go ahead and throw me in with you guys.  It should be legalized yesterday.

If I had known in college how serious these "crimes" were I might have been more careful but I still would hbe smoked weed.  I used to keep a QP around all the time just because it
Was cheaper in bulk.  Apparently that makes you a big time
Drug dealer.

Who knew, me and Pablo Escobar were one in the same.
 :suicide:

(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzd5zsVF0v1qbdluho1_500.png)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 17, 2012, 04:31:29 PM
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzd5zsVF0v1qbdluho1_500.png)

I'm not sure what you mean by that, Gene Wilder and Bob Marley does not compute.

But yes, as a matter of fact I do know a tremendous amount about cannabis, both medicaly and recreationally speaking..  although I am a huge Marley fan, I only learnt of his excellence in my second semester of my freshman year.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 17, 2012, 04:55:36 PM
I honestly thought people quit smoking weed in the 90s.  I was surprised as hell to see this: 

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/weed-wars-sneak-peek-weed-wars.html


That was a good show.  Guess it got ended/cancelled/busted.  I thought they were maybe rubbing it into the Feds' faces a bit much...  Anyway, a new show on Nat Geo premiers Wednesday night:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/american-weed/

I wouldn't smoke the diggity even if I could (hair follicle tests for employment), but the criminality is in arresting people who choose to use it on their time.  Ruining lives over this piddly bullshite is a national tragedy.  Prohibition of mj is not about public safety or public health, it has always been about putting money in someone's pocket.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Tusk till Dawn on February 17, 2012, 05:46:15 PM
I'm not sure what you mean by that, Gene Wilder and Bob Marley does not compute.

But yes, as a matter of fact I do know a tremendous amount about cannabis, both medicaly and recreationally speaking..  although I am a huge Marley fan, I only learnt of his excellence in my second semester of my freshman year.

Not directed to you. I guess my mistake was attaching it to your quote. I just thought it was funny, and it fit in the 'weed' thread.

Anyway--What do you think the chances are that states will follow California's lead and adopt similar medical MJ regulation?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 19, 2012, 10:10:05 AM
Not directed to you. I guess my mistake was attaching it to your quote. I just thought it was funny, and it fit in the 'weed' thread.

Anyway--What do you think the chances are that states will follow California's lead and adopt similar medical MJ regulation?

I think the chances are good, at least in the long term.  Colorado already has.  I'm sure it's just a matter of time.(I hope)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Pumpkin Escobar on February 19, 2012, 01:21:33 PM
Not directed to you. I guess my mistake was attaching it to your quote. I just thought it was funny, and it fit in the 'weed' thread.

Anyway--What do you think the chances are that states will follow California's lead and adopt similar medical MJ regulation?
 

Doesn't matter if dooshbag Feds threaten and harass the providers and the state officials who regulate them. That is happening now.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: wolowitz on February 19, 2012, 02:46:20 PM
I believe our great country has more folks, per capita, behind bars than any other country in the world.
The "war on drugs" has become an industry, with their own lobbyists in every state capitol, and DC too.
I've no idea how to solve the problem, but our current situation is retarded in every way.
Oh, and don't get your hopes up about legalization in our lifetimes. California couldn't even pass it. No way arkiesaw ever will.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 19, 2012, 02:51:23 PM
I believe our great country has more folks, per capita, behind bars than any other country in the world.
The "war on drugs" has become an industry, with their own lobbyists in every state capitol, and DC too.
I've no idea how to solve the problem, but our current situation is retarded in every way.
Oh, and don't get your hopes up about legalization in our lifetimes. California couldn't even pass it. No way arkiesaw ever will.

The US has 25% of the world's prison population with ~4% of the world's actual population.

Private prisons, lack of reforming attitude, Puritanical opposition, etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 19, 2012, 04:55:57 PM
There are a lot of similarities between how we conduct the commerce of our prison system and the "war on drugs" to the same insane thinking we use to churn money out of people getting sick and needing medical care.

We are a crazy capitalism, unfettered by common sense and self discipline and resistant to anything we call "regulation", thus allowed to run amok. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: boartitz on February 19, 2012, 06:05:09 PM
The US has 25% of the world's prison population with ~4% of the world's actual population.

Private prisons, lack of reforming attitude, Puritanical opposition, etc. etc. etc.
A lot of those other countries just execute you instead of locking you up.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 19, 2012, 06:26:22 PM
You stoners need to admit there has already been a huge amount of de facto decriminalzation in all fifty states.  People picked up for recreational amounts or a bong (possession of a criminal instrument) get a fine with little chance of a court appearance unless they're a minor.  Even then, you can be sentenced in a way where it won't become part of your record.

Jails, county and state, are over crowded and the over worked and underpaid assitant prosecutors are rarely interested in tossing Cheech and Chong into the clink for recreational use.  The idea that The Man is making a mint by bulding prisons with state tax dollars and tossing recreational users into prison isn't consistent with my experience.  Privately run prisons are still pretty unusual, at least in Arknsas.

But, we do have too many non-violent criminals behind bars (although I can think of one - Lu Hardin - who SHOULD be in jail).
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 19, 2012, 06:54:11 PM
You stoners need to admit there has already been a huge amount of de facto decriminalzation in all fifty states.  People picked up for recreational amounts or a bong (possession of a criminal instrument) get a fine with little chance of a court appearance unless they're a minor.  Even then, you can be sentenced in a way where it won't become part of your record.

Jails, county and state, are over crowded and the over worked and underpaid assitant prosecutors are rarely interested in tossing Cheech and Chong into the clink for recreational use.  The idea that The Man is making a mint by bulding prisons with state tax dollars and tossing recreational users into prison isn't consistent with my experience.  Privately run prisons are still pretty unusual, at least in Arknsas.

But, we do have too many non-violent criminals behind bars (although I can think of one - Lu Hardin - who SHOULD be in jail).

It's not gone far enough.  There are people wasting away in cells who would otherwise be productive citizens.  Worse yet, they're likely to come out of those cells as hardened people.  I personally know some folks who were solid people, are solid people, who were so broken by the time they got out that they were never the same.  They'll live the rest of their fractured lives in fear of crossing some arbitrary line.  And for fucking what purpose?  How does it serve the purpose of the state?

I'm not arguing with you, Arkguy, as I think you likely agree.  I'm just angry as all hell that we're STILL putting people in a pen for smoking dope.

Freedom my ass, Amerika. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Sliver72 on February 19, 2012, 07:18:04 PM
A majority of the most fucked up things in the world can be explained with my handy three point checklist.

Problem X is perpetuated because of one or more of the following:
a. Money
b. Religion
c. Pussy
If Problem X is perpetuated because of all three concurrently, hasty relocation is advised.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 19, 2012, 07:33:54 PM
It's not gone far enough.  There are people wasting away in cells who would otherwise be productive citizens.  Worse yet, they're likely to come out of those cells as hardened people.  I personally know some folks who were solid people, are solid people, who were so broken by the time they got out that they were never the same.  They'll live the rest of their fractured lives in fear of crossing some arbitrary line.  And for fricking what purpose?  How does it serve the purpose of the state?

I'm not arguing with you, Arkguy, as I think you likely agree.  I'm just angry as all Starkville that we're STILL putting people in a pen for smoking dope.

Freedom my ass, Amerika.

In fact, I mostly do agree.  In fact, one of the few things Jesse Jackson and I agree on - other than liking Dr. Suess - is his line, "it's cheaper to send a young man to Harvard than send him to prison."  I think there are varius reasons for a shift in mindset on the subject of decriminalsation for non-dealer quanities of (REAL dealers, not the kid who sits next to you in physics) pot.   From the left, there are the usual suspects.  But on the right, there are more and more people who see it as a dollars and cents thing.

I'm too laxy to look it up but the percentage of Arkansas' state budget on prison construction, maintenance and taff support is huge.  K-12 gets their mooney but higher ed takes a lot of that hit.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 19, 2012, 07:39:33 PM
It's not gone far enough.  There are people wasting away in cells who would otherwise be productive citizens.  Worse yet, they're likely to come out of those cells as hardened people.  I personally know some folks who were solid people, are solid people, who were so broken by the time they got out that they were never the same.  They'll live the rest of their fractured lives in fear of crossing some arbitrary line.  And for fricking what purpose?  How does it serve the purpose of the state?

I'm not arguing with you, Arkguy, as I think you likely agree.  I'm just angry as all Starkville that we're STILL putting people in a pen for smoking dope.

Freedom my ass, Amerika.
its against the law, doesnt matter if you think it should or shouldnt be, its illegal. if you do something that is illegal and you know the punishment is going to prison, then you're a fucking moron and have no arguement if you get caught
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 19, 2012, 08:25:30 PM
its against the law, doesnt matter if you think it should or shouldnt be, its illegal. if you do something that is illegal and you know the punishment is going to prison, then you're a fucking moron and have no arguement if you get caught

Have you ever questioned authority in your life, or do you just succumb to every law these fucks put on the books?

"Law" is not a synonym for "moral."
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 19, 2012, 08:32:26 PM
Have you ever questioned authority in your life, or do you just succumb to every law these fricks put on the books?

"Law" is not a synonym for "moral."
i question authority all the time. I think i should be able to carry my weapon any where i want. Im a non felon, dont do drugs, have my permit yet i am restricted on where i can carry . I think that law is dumb, it keeps me from protecting my self and my family, BUT i follow the law, not because i think its right, but because i know the consequences.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 19, 2012, 08:38:05 PM
  Privately run prisons are still pretty unusual, at least in Arknsas.

But, we do have too many non-violent criminals behind bars (although I can think of one - Lu Hardin - who SHOULD be in jail).

Whackenhut Correctional Services would like a word with you about that.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: allswell on February 19, 2012, 08:40:19 PM
accoording to the tcu police chief it wasnt just weed

The drugs involved included marijuana, cocaine, "
;Dmolly ;D
" -- a powdered form of ecstacy, ecstacy pills, and prescription drugs like Xanax, Hydrocodone and Oxycontin, McGee said.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 19, 2012, 09:45:12 PM
i question authority all the time. I think i should be able to carry my weapon any where i want. Im a non felon, dont do drugs, have my permit yet i am restricted on where i can carry . I think that law is dumb, it keeps me from protecting my self and my family, BUT i follow the law, not because i think its right, but because i know the consequences.

I was unaware you could murder someone with marijuana.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: snoots on February 20, 2012, 01:52:15 AM
I was unaware you could murder someone with marijuana.

Depends if you are talking domestic or international production.  See Nuevo Laredo.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 20, 2012, 06:21:31 AM
i question authority all the time. I think i should be able to carry my weapon any where i want. Im a non felon, dont do drugs, have my permit yet i am restricted on where i can carry . I think that law is dumb, it keeps me from protecting my self and my family, BUT i follow the law, not because i think its right, but because i know the consequences.

I know.  It's like when you see poor people, and you know damn well someone taught them growing up what the consequences of not being rich were.  Idiots.  Some people never learn.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 20, 2012, 11:45:32 AM
i question authority all the time. I think i should be able to carry my weapon any where i want. Im a non felon, dont do drugs, have my permit yet i am restricted on where i can carry . I think that law is dumb, it keeps me from protecting my self and my family, BUT i follow the law, not because i think its right, but because i know the consequences.

Do you drink alcohol?

You so know the history of that in America, don't you?
You can now buy on virtually every corner what was pronounced by our government as the bane of Our society.  You can actually manufacture small quantities of wine or beer for yourself, but not whiskey.  As long as we have a country run by politicians and lawyers. There will always be a way for them to harvest the wool from the sheep.

Prisons, medical services, criminal justice system.  Take your pick.
All they have  to do is find something the masses are afraid of(prison,butt sex) and something the masses desire(drugs, alcohol, freedom from oppression) and you have the perfect recipe for control.
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 12:26:40 PM
You stoners need to admit there has already been a huge amount of de facto decriminalzation in all fifty states.  People picked up for recreational amounts or a bong (possession of a criminal instrument) get a fine with little chance of a court appearance unless they're a minor.  Even then, you can be sentenced in a way where it won't become part of your record.

Jails, county and state, are over crowded and the over worked and underpaid assitant prosecutors are rarely interested in tossing Cheech and Chong into the clink for recreational use.  The idea that The Man is making a mint by bulding prisons with state tax dollars and tossing recreational users into prison isn't consistent with my experience.  Privately run prisons are still pretty unusual, at least in Arknsas.

But, we do have too many non-violent criminals behind bars (although I can think of one - Lu Hardin - who SHOULD be in jail).

About 25% of those in jail nation-wide are there for non-violent drug convictions, up about 150% over the last 30 years.

http://reason.com/archives/2011/06/08/prison-math

The US currently imprisons their own at the highest rate in the history of open societies, and at least 1/4th of it is driven by moral legislation that hurts society and increases drug use and violence attached to drug use.

"De facto" dicriminalization is bullshit when the law still says you can be put in a cage and your future destroyed based on what you do with YOUR body.

Also, on tapatalk and not taking the time to quote every post I'm responding to, but...

Cannabis is NOT a drug.  It is a plant which contains cannabinoids, which have some pharmacological and physiological properties.  Marinol is a drug.  Cannabis is an illicit substance.

As for tobacco, the government heavily subsidizes it and heavily earns off it, I believe.  If so, they're dealing in it just as much as Philip Morris is.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: TravelHog on February 20, 2012, 12:52:54 PM
I don't want weed legalized. Contrary to popular opinion on here, it is a gateway drug. Seen it too many times. You can downplay it all you want, but the bottom line is it's illegal. Why risk your future doing an illegal drug? Simple, the world is full of dumbasses. I could smoke weed, but I choose not to. I do not want to jeopardize my job nor my freedom.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on February 20, 2012, 01:15:22 PM
I don't want weed legalized. Contrary to popular opinion on here, it is a gateway drug. Seen it too many times. You can downplay it all you want, but the bottom line is it's illegal. Why risk your future doing an illegal drug? Simple, the world is full of dumbasses. I could smoke weed, but I choose not to. I do not want to jeopardize my job nor my freedom.

Just when this thread was calming down, you go and post this. 

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 20, 2012, 01:47:21 PM
its against the law, doesnt matter if you think it should or shouldnt be, its illegal. if you do something that is illegal and you know the punishment is going to prison, then you're a fucking moron and have no arguement if you get caught

Don't some states still have laws on the books saying it's illegal to sex up your wife with anal/oral.  Would people who choose to participate in these prohibited activities also qualify as "fucking morons?"
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 02:20:11 PM
I don't want weed legalized. Contrary to popular opinion on here the overwhelming bulk of statistical, anecdotal, cultural and scientific evidence, it is a gateway drug.

Keep it honest.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Arkansas Proud on February 20, 2012, 02:30:07 PM
I believe our great country has more folks, per capita, behind bars than any other country in the world.

As you stated, this is a great country.  And the freest country in the world.

I'm not making a direct correlation between the freest country in the world and more folks behind bars, but i'm assuming it doesn't hurt.

It's definitely something I'm not bitching about anytime soon.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 20, 2012, 02:33:58 PM
As you stated, this is a great country.  And the freest country in the world.

I'm not making a direct correlation between the freest country in the world and more folks behind bars, but i'm assuming it doesn't hurt.

It's definitely something I'm not bitching about anytime soon.
Are we really the freest country? I figure someone like Iceland was probably "freer", if you can really calculate that. But then again they have to have a special website just to make sure they aren't related to their one-night-stand so they can't be that great.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Arkansas Proud on February 20, 2012, 02:35:49 PM
I don't want weed legalized. Contrary to popular opinion on here, it is a gateway drug. Seen it too many times. You can downplay it all you want, but the bottom line is it's illegal. Why risk your future doing an illegal drug? Simple, the world is full of dumbasses. I could smoke weed, but I choose not to. I do not want to jeopardize my job nor my freedom.

This is very true.  No one who has ever stopped at just weed understands what you're saying here.  But it's sort of like being an addict.  With many people, weed leads to many other drugs.  You can find thousands of testimonies that state this, and that's the primary reason it's still illegal, despite what pot-smokers want to publicize.

To me, the argument that "well, alcohol is legal, so pot should be" just doesn't hold any water.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 02:38:15 PM
You can find thousands of testimonies that state this, and that's the primary reason it's still illegal, despite what pot-smokers want to publicize.

And yet, there is literally no evidence of it. 

There are few things that have been proven incorrect as often as the "gateway" theory.  It's horseshit, and that's been roundly proven.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 02:39:40 PM
As you stated, this is a great country.  And the freest country in the world.

Not even close.  Not even close to close.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/04/let_x_units_of_freedom_ring.html

Of course, that article was written when we still had the guarantee of a right to trial, and before our government began assassinating its citizens without levying charges on them.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Arkansas Proud on February 20, 2012, 02:40:42 PM
Keep it honest.
And yet, there is literally no evidence of it. 

There are few things that have been proven incorrect as often as the "gateway" theory.  It's horseshit, and that's been roundly proven.

I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 02:47:41 PM
I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.

It's 1000% more right than actual human interaction.  You haven't talked to 1% of 1% of the addicts out there, and you haven't weighted your interactions to make sure and account for other factors.  You don't have enough of a sample size to make any kind of statement, and you have done literally absolutely ZERO to show that marijuana use had any effect on later drug use.

Also, it doesn't matter if every drug user in the world says they started on pot.  The large and overwhelming number of people who use Cannabis, don't use other illegal drugs.  That is, in itself, proof that you're wrong.

Also, how many of those same drug users who "started" with pot never drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes, listened to rock or rap, or went swimming?  Approximately zero, I'm sure.  Are all of these things "gateways" to hard drug use?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Peanut Adams on February 20, 2012, 02:51:04 PM
To me, the argument that "well, alcohol is legal, so pot should be" just doesn't hold any water.

you are so dumb. you are really dumb, for real.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Arkansas Proud on February 20, 2012, 03:00:49 PM

Also, it doesn't matter if every drug user in the world says they started on pot.  The large and overwhelming number of people who use Cannabis, don't use other illegal drugs.  That is, in itself, proof that you're wrong.


Can't argue with a statement like that.

It's fine with me.  I'm not going to argue this point.  Arguing with a pot smoker over the legality/illegality of pot/gateway to other drugs subject is like arguing with Alabama on how many national championships they have.

Either one is pointless, but I'd much rather argue the second.  And I'll gladly be called stupid for stating this.  I've been called stupid for a lot less.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 03:13:38 PM
Can't argue with a statement like that.

It's fine with me.  I'm not going to argue this point.  Arguing with a pot smoker over the legality/illegality of pot/gateway to other drugs subject is like arguing with Alabama on how many national championships they have.

Either one is pointless, but I'd much rather argue the second.  And I'll gladly be called stupid for stating this.  I've been called stupid for a lot less.

I'm not calling you stupid.  I'm telling you you're wrong.  And you are, and it's easy to prove.

And, you're actually the Alabama fan in this scenario.  You're claiming things for which there is no proof, for which the proof actually directly contradicts you, and then dismissing anything that proves you wrong.

You're not arguing with me, by the way.  You're arguing with all of the data, and all of the research.  That's between you and whatever premium you put on the truth.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 03:15:57 PM
I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.

Started with pot?  You mean before they ever tried alcohol or tobacco?  Hmmm, I wonder if those 2 are gateway drugs?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LaMoHog on February 20, 2012, 03:19:57 PM
Started with pot?  You mean before they ever tried alcohol or tobacco?  Hmmm, I wonder if those 2 are gateway drugs?

It all boils down to Big League Chew.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogustus on February 20, 2012, 03:22:25 PM
I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: pigsteye on February 20, 2012, 03:23:19 PM
the original gateway drug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Ep5U56--M
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 20, 2012, 03:26:18 PM
The thing about the gate-way theory is that, real addicts are going to get what they can, when they can.  Just because they got pot first, doesn't mean they wouldn't have gone straight to heroin if they'd had that opportunity first.  Pot is usually first because its cheap and widely available to teenagers.  That's all.  There is no causality in opportunity.


Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Splurge on February 20, 2012, 03:38:47 PM
It's 1000% more right than actual human interaction.  You haven't talked to 1% of 1% of the addicts out there, and you haven't weighted your interactions to make sure and account for other factors.  You don't have enough of a sample size to make any kind of statement, and you have done literally absolutely ZERO to show that marijuana use had any effect on later drug use.

Also, it doesn't matter if every drug user in the world says they started on pot.  The large and overwhelming number of people who use Cannabis, don't use other illegal drugs.  That is, in itself, proof that you're wrong.

Also, how many of those same drug users who "started" with pot never drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes, listened to rock or rap, or went swimming?  Approximately zero, I'm sure.  Are all of these things "gateways" to hard drug use?

Not throwing a dog in this fight (trying to sit on the sidelines and use it as a learning opportunity): You are dismissing his arguments for lack of empirical evidence or statistical facts.  Valid point.

But then you are making your argument/case without giving any empirical evidence or facts yourself but rather broad, generalized statements or opinions (e.g. "The large and overwhelming number of people who use Cannabis, don't use other illegal drugs."

I personally am trying to objectively sift through all of this, but its hard when "cases" are being made with no real facts given.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:  I don't smoke pot or other illegal drugs (never have) but don't judge or care about others who do - none of my business.  However, I did get a blow job in HS and I can definitively say that was a gateway to wanting another and wanting more sex, so there's that. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Trigger7672 on February 20, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXxwOiOX0HM
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 20, 2012, 04:06:51 PM
Not throwing a dog in this fight (trying to sit on the sidelines and use it as a learning opportunity): You are dismissing his arguments for lack of empirical evidence or statistical facts.  Valid point.

But then you are making your argument/case without giving any empirical evidence or facts yourself but rather broad, generalized statements or opinions (e.g. "The large and overwhelming number of people who use Cannabis, don't use other illegal drugs."

I personally am trying to objectively sift through all of this, but its hard when "cases" are being made with no real facts given.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer:  I don't smoke pot or other illegal drugs (never have) but don't judge or care about others who do - none of my business.  However, I did get a blow job in HS and I can definitively say that was a gateway to wanting another and wanting more sex, so there's that.

I'm at work, or I would be happy to link the numbers all day.  Ask my friend Google, he's pretty handy.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: TC on February 20, 2012, 04:14:33 PM
I'm at work, or I would be happy to link the numbers all day.  Ask my friend Google, he's pretty handy.

See, now I'm calling bullshit.



No one on the woopigs works.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 20, 2012, 04:24:21 PM
Don't some states still have laws on the books saying it's illegal to sex up your wife with anal/oral.  Would people who choose to participate in these prohibited activities also qualify as "fricking morons?"

One law is enforced and one isn't.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 20, 2012, 04:51:12 PM
Don't some states still have laws on the books saying it's illegal to sex up your wife with anal/oral.  Would people who choose to participate in these prohibited activities also qualify as "fucking morons?"
There is little chance of anyone busting into your bedroom and making sure you aren't doing anal. There is even smaller chance of your wife being an undercover cop in a sting operation. And really, if she was...wouldn't it be worth it, just for the story you could tell your friends?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 04:51:24 PM
I get not using because it is illegal but I cannot understand why anyone would be ok with alcohol being legal and pot being illegal. Calling pot a gateway drug and not alcohol. Hell, alcohol is the gateway to lots of illegal activity, including sodomy.

I really can't believe some people. Alcohol is eleventy trillion times worse for your body, mind, and society yet cock suckers look down their noses at someone while they smoke a doob. Freaking nonsense.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Red Death on February 20, 2012, 04:51:35 PM
The only reason AT ALL that someone could say marijuana is a gateway drug is because the people who sell marijuana are constantly pushing the other stuff.  It's not that marijuana causes people to want to do other drugs, it's BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL AND YOU HAVE TO GET IT FROM SOME SHITHEAD WHO WANTS TO SELL COCAINE AND CRACK TOO. 

So in effect the prohibition of marijuana is the gateway to illegal drug use.  Treat it like alcohol.  Sell it.  Tax it.  Get it off the streets and everyone's quality of life will be improved.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: TravelHog on February 20, 2012, 04:56:43 PM
I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. I grew up and went to school with lots of kids that smoked weed. All but a handful went on to something more powerful; most threw their lives away as a result. If that's not a "gateway drug" I don't know what it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: izual65 on February 20, 2012, 04:59:42 PM
The only reason AT ALL that someone could say marijuana is a gateway drug is because the people who sell marijuana are constantly pushing the other stuff.  It's not that marijuana causes people to want to do other drugs, it's BECAUSE IT'S ILLEGAL AND YOU HAVE TO GET IT FROM SOME SHITHEAD WHO WANTS TO SELL COCAINE AND CRACK TOO. 

So in effect the prohibition of marijuana is the gateway to illegal drug use.  Treat it like alcohol.  Sell it.  Tax it.  Get it off the streets and everyone's quality of life will be improved.

This. Marijuana is illegal. You've tried it. Why not try the rest?

You've not been caught with marijuana. You're not going to be caught with cocaine. etc. Why not?

And who hasn't tried marijuana without trying cigarrettes or alcohol?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 05:03:07 PM
I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. I grew up and went to school with lots of kids that smoked weed. All but a handful went on to something more powerful; most threw their lives away as a result. If that's not a "gateway drug" I don't know what it.

Again, did they use alcohol first? What about the most addictive drug tobacco? Why do you not consider those drugs as the gateway?

My personal experience is that most of our latest presidents smoked pot. Almost everyone from the baby boomer generation did also and they have done well for themselves.

My own friends that I was a stoner with, 3 are now attorneys and 2 own their own business. Only one is working a dead end job. God bless sheltered people.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: izual65 on February 20, 2012, 05:07:41 PM
I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. I grew up and went to school with lots of kids that smoked weed. All but a handful went on to something more powerful; most threw their lives away as a result. If that's not a "gateway drug" I don't know what it.

so apparently, obviously, marijuana made them want to use tougher drugs.


and obviously not the drug dealer or the drug dealer's circle of friends who also engage in other forms of illegal activities 

or anything like that.

 :sarcasm:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: TravelHog on February 20, 2012, 05:09:52 PM
All I can attest to is what I've seen and experienced. No amount of twisting it will make me see otherwise.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 05:15:03 PM
All I can attest to is what I've seen and experienced. No amount of twisting it will make me see otherwise.

Gotcha. You only know what you've seen. Forget about reading a book or two to get a different perspective. I used to think all Christians were Methodist because that's what I witnessed. Doesn't make it so now do it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 20, 2012, 05:37:15 PM
Who are you, who is so wise in the ways of science?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 20, 2012, 05:59:11 PM
I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.
Actually most addicts if you ask them what the first illegal substance they used they say pot. When you ask them what was the first substance they used most all will say tabacco. I tried cigarettes, snuff, alcohol, ritalin,Xanax,Duster(canned air), cough syrup before i ever got pot. Just because something is legal doesnt mean it isnt an illicit substance.
Top three harmful addictions in the country:
Tabacco
Alcohol
Pharmaceuticals(prescription drugs)<---- saddest one is this one because a majority of these addicts are bein told to take thesedrugs by doctors.

Starkville ill even throw food in there as a prevelant addiction i dont see any of you trying to shut down your local mcdonalds.

Also the idea that the amount of hardcore drug users would increase if all was legal is stupid. Why would that happen? I,like most people, dont do heroin because it is horribly addictive and will kill you not because it is illegal. If it became legal I, like mos people am notgoing to all of the sudden start using it simply because oh now its legal. The peoPle who do hard drugs do them regaurdless of of legality same as the peoPle who dont do hard drugs regardless of the law. Legality isnt controlling the amount of users of hard drugs.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 06:32:56 PM
Actually most addicts if you ask them what the first illegal substance they used they say pot. When you ask them what was the first substance they used most all will say tabacco. I tried cigarettes, snuff, alcohol, ritalin,Xanax, cough syrup before i ever got pot. Just because something is legal doesnt mean it isnt an illicit substance.
Top three harmful addictions in the country:
Tabacco
Alcohol
Pharmaceuticals(prescription drugs)<---- saddest one is this one because a majority of these addicts are bein told to take thesedrugs by doctors.

Starkville ill even throw food in there as a prevelant addiction i dont see any of you trying to shut down your local mcdonalds.

Also the idea that the amount of hardcore drug users would increase if all was legal is stupid. Why would that happen? I,like most people, dont do heroin because it is horribly addictive and will kill you not because it is illegal. If it became legal I, like mos people am notgoing to all of the sudden start using it simply because oh now its legal. The peoPle who do hard drugs do them regaurdless of of legality same as the peoPle who dont do hard drugs regardless of the law. Legality isnt controlling the amount of users of hard drugs.

The places it's been illegal and then become legal or decriminalized have seen a reduction in use among kids and adults.  That is correct.  It has actually lowered the number of users by it not being a crime.  So really TravelHog wants to legalized it so it doesn't continue to ruin so many lives, he just doesn't know any better cause what he seen happen to Willie Ray and Jessie.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Tusk till Dawn on February 20, 2012, 07:49:15 PM
I don't want weed legalized. Contrary to popular opinion on here, it is a gateway drug. Seen it too many times. You can downplay it all you want, but the bottom line is it's illegal. Why risk your future doing an illegal drug? Simple, the world is full of dumbasses. I could smoke weed, but I choose not to. I do not want to jeopardize my job nor my freedom.

I don't give two shits either way, but I just want to throw this out there: I think a lot of the reason for it being a "gateway drug" is not the drug itself, but rather the user's exposure/access to illegal activities (buying drugs). Legalization would eliminate much of that exposure or access to the seedy underworld of the pot trade.  :stache:

edit: shit, guess I should have read all the other posts following yours.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 20, 2012, 07:52:24 PM
I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. I grew up and went to school with lots of kids that smoked weed. All but a handful went on to something more powerful; most threw their lives away as a result. If that's not a "gateway drug" I don't know what it.

Wow, I had a lot of friends in college who smoked weed, in fact several still do, and for the most part they are all pretty successful normal dudes.

So now what do we do?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 20, 2012, 08:10:42 PM
Everything is a gateway to something else.

Drinking beer usually leads to a guy getting older and thinking he maybe needs to drink something a little more sophisticated or lighter on his belly so he drinks whiskey or scotch.
Getting a blowjob from your first girlfriend usually leads to having sex with your honey and then fricking a mistress in the ass down the road.
Inventing the "home office" bullshit deduction on your taxes when you know damn well you don't do anything productive at home usually leads to wanton mileage write offs down the road.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Zoso on February 20, 2012, 08:12:16 PM
Wow, I had a lot of friends in college who smoked weed, in fact several still do, and for the most part they are all pretty successful normal dudes.

So now what do we do?

We get high...
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 20, 2012, 08:31:22 PM
I don't know what statistics say b/c I don't really care to look this stuff up, but I know what addicts say.  Every single addict of a harder drug (not prescription, that's an issue in and of itself) I've talked to in person started with pot.  Probably b/c pot is easy to find.

And I've talked to a lot of addicts.

But some study you can find on the internet or in a book might be right.  It's just not MORE right than actual human interaction.

So by this logic...

Most serial killers start with small animals.  Small animals should therefore be outlawed, right?

People have addictive personalities.  They become addicted, whether it be to cocaine, cigarettes, whiskey, bonbons,chicken pot pie, bad cable shows, Italian porn, what the fuck ever...stop blaming SOME innanimate object for a person's shortcomings.  Trust me, they won't hesitate to, they don't need you to carry that torch foe them.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 20, 2012, 08:40:17 PM
All I can tell you people is that once I discovered anal sex, the whole world appeared in a different hue. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 20, 2012, 08:43:23 PM
I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences. I grew up and went to school with lots of kids that smoked weed. All but a handful went on to something more powerful; most threw their lives away as a result. If that's not a "gateway drug" I don't know what it.

This is Not meant as a knock on you, God
Knows I grew up there too.

Think about where you are talking about., pot wasn't a gateway to addiction for a lot of them, it was a Gateway to $$$.  I know you know as many as I probably do who do/did grow weed and many moved onto cooking meth, trafficking blow, and who knows what else.  It was just a way out(or so they thought) for most of them.

Legalize it and the profit margin is out the window, nobody goes to jail for smoking it, and people move on with their lives and find a gainful means of fundage.
A lot of people get arrested and just say fuck it, I'll never get a decent job now with a criminal record, so I might as well just be a criminal. 

You know it happens.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 20, 2012, 09:54:04 PM
All I can tell you people is that once I discovered anal sex, the whole world appeared in a different hue.
...brown?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Clark on February 20, 2012, 09:54:41 PM
Glad they are taking this trash off the streets! Lock her up and throw away the key!

Izard County Sheriff Tate Lawrence announced today that a Norfork woman, 25 year old Ashley Blalock, was arrested Sunday on numerous charges, including four felonies and one misdemeanor related to her allegedly furnishing prohibited articles to Carl Vannater, of Pineville, who was an inmate at the Izard County Detention Facility.
According to Sheriff Lawrence, at the time of Vannater's incarceration Ashley Blalock brought a bible containing tobacco, rolling papers and synthetic marijuana to give to him. Blalock was charged with 3 felonies, furnishing prohibited articles, conspiracy to furnish prohibited articles and possession of drug paraphernalia with the purpose to conceal a controlled substance. She was also charged with misdemeanor possession of a controlled substance.
A fourth felony, unlawful use of a communication device, was added to the list of charges as the result of phone conversations between Blalock and Vannater discussing how the prohibited items would be concealed and delivered.
Blalock remains in the Izard County Jail in lieu of a $25,000 bond. Similar charges have been filed and an arrest will be executed against Carl Vannater who is currently incarcerated at the Arkansas Department of Correction.    
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 20, 2012, 09:59:55 PM
You know it's bad when you get arrested in jail.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: snoots on February 20, 2012, 10:00:46 PM
All I can tell you people is that once I discovered anal sex, the whole world appeared in a different hue.

You're leaving yourself wide open.  So to speak.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Ty Webb on February 20, 2012, 10:04:40 PM
All I can tell you people is that once I discovered anal sex, the whole world appeared in a different hue.
Giving or receiving?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 20, 2012, 10:11:08 PM
You know it's bad when you get arrested in jail.

Zing!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 20, 2012, 11:52:04 PM
Glad they are taking this trash off the streets! Lock her up and throw away the key!

Izard County Sheriff Tate Lawrence announced today that a Norfork woman, 25 year old Ashley Blalock, was arrested Sunday on numerous charges, including four felonies and one misdemeanor related to her allegedly furnishing prohibited articles to Carl Vannater, of Pineville, who was an inmate at the Izard County Detention Facility.
According to Sheriff Lawrence, at the time of Vannater's incarceration Ashley Blalock brought a bible containing tobacco, rolling papers and synthetic marijuana to give to him. Blalock was charged with 3 felonies, furnishing prohibited articles, conspiracy to furnish prohibited articles and possession of drug paraphernalia with the purpose to conceal a controlled substance. She was also charged with misdemeanor possession of a controlled substance.
A fourth felony, unlawful use of a communication device, was added to the list of charges as the result of phone conversations between Blalock and Vannater discussing how the prohibited items would be concealed and delivered.
Blalock remains in the Izard County Jail in lieu of a $25,000 bond. Similar charges have been filed and an arrest will be executed against Carl Vannater who is currently incarcerated at the Arkansas Department of Correction.   

So I gather that guys in prison feel that they aren't suffering enough, and would like a headache to go with their own personal version of Deliverance?  What the fuck is the world coming to when the criminals are smoking the fake shit?  You're in jail - what are they gonna do?  I'll admit I don't know, but do they piss you in the joint?  And if they do, isn't that kinda like blatantly admitting incompetence on the part of prison officials? 

Lots of questions, I know. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Clark on February 21, 2012, 12:39:24 AM
So I gather that guys in prison feel that they aren't suffering enough, and would like a headache to go with their own personal version of Deliverance?  What the fuck is the world coming to when the criminals are smoking the fake shit?  You're in jail - what are they gonna do?  I'll admit I don't know, but do they piss you in the joint?  And if they do, isn't that kinda like blatantly admitting incompetence on the part of prison officials? 

Lots of questions, I know.
You think you have questions? I still want to know the inner workings of that prison Tango and Cash were in. Jack Palance can just disappear into the fog? Zip lines? Chain hoists over pools of water with readily available hotdog electrical wires? Prisoners can congregate whenever by sneaking out of their cells? The list is endless.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: VillageHawg7 on February 21, 2012, 09:34:20 AM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's four years ago. It got bad enough that I had four feet of my small intestine cut out.

Marijuana is the only way I can ingest food without my body rejecting it completely and it has been that way since a year before diagnosis and three years before surgery. I'm not talking about a weak appetite here...my stomach will literally begin the process of rejecting food as soon as it enters my mouth if I have not taken MM within an hour before eating.

The small bowel resection did fix the appetite problem for almost a year and I stopped marijuana use during that time, but the same problems returned late last summer.

I reacted horribly to Remicade infusions, which created four hours of misery each session at the cost of $36,000/year. Still did nothing for my appetite.

My insurance decided that Humira is what they wanted to start paying for and it is much less of a hassle, but still a $24,000/year medication. Still does nothing for my appetite.

I moved to Colorado recently and was able to get my temporary license within 24 hours of establishing residency. My doctor travels to her clinics in Aspen, Carbondale, Glenwood Springs, Rifle, and Grand Junction and prescribes marijuana almost exclusively. She is definitely somewhat of a hippy, but happens to be one with a Princeton education.

My town of 9,000 people has four dispensaries. Ten minutes down the road in Carbondale, a town half the size, there are eleven. The upcoming National Geo program mentioned earlier just completed their year of filming right in this area.

I get a free 1/8 each month from my designated dispensary and have also been given a rice crispy treat (85 mg of THC), cheeba chew, and a hand-rolled joint of the hog leg variety in the past week, all free of charge.

I am able to curb the pain and keep a vegetable that might not have been cooked long enough from ruining my day with debilitating gas buildup.
I now hike and ski weekly, which would be out of the question without this treatment. I maintain a healthy weight of 165-175 pounds after bottoming out at 125 just two summers ago. Life is good.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Count Porkula on February 21, 2012, 10:43:15 AM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's four years ago. It got bad enough that I had four feet of my small intestine cut out.

Marijuana is the only way I can ingest food without my body rejecting it completely and it has been that way since a year before diagnosis and three years before surgery. I'm not talking about a weak appetite here...my stomach will literally begin the process of rejecting food as soon as it enters my mouth if I have not taken MM within an hour before eating.

The small bowel resection did fix the appetite problem for almost a year and I stopped marijuana use during that time, but the same problems returned late last summer.

I reacted horribly to Remicade infusions, which created four hours of misery each session at the cost of $36,000/year. Still did nothing for my appetite.

My insurance decided that Humira is what they wanted to start paying for and it is much less of a hassle, but still a $24,000/year medication. Still does nothing for my appetite.

I moved to Colorado recently and was able to get my temporary license within 24 hours of establishing residency. My doctor travels to her clinics in Aspen, Carbondale, Glenwood Springs, Rifle, and Grand Junction and prescribes marijuana almost exclusively. She is definitely somewhat of a hippy, but happens to be one with a Princeton education.

My town of 9,000 people has four dispensaries. Ten minutes down the road in Carbondale, a town half the size, there are eleven. The upcoming National Geo program mentioned earlier just completed their year of filming right in this area.

I get a free 1/8 each month from my designated dispensary and have also been given a rice crispy treat (85 mg of THC), cheeba chew, and a hand-rolled joint of the hog leg variety in the past week, all free of charge.

I am able to curb the pain and keep a vegetable that might not have been cooked long enough from ruining my day with debilitating gas buildup.
I now hike and ski weekly, which would be out of the question without this treatment. I maintain a healthy weight of 165-175 pounds after bottoming out at 125 just two summers ago. Life is good.

 :thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 21, 2012, 12:17:50 PM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's four years ago. It got bad enough that I had four feet of my small intestine cut out.

Marijuana is the only way I can ingest food without my body rejecting it completely and it has been that way since a year before diagnosis and three years before surgery. I'm not talking about a weak appetite here...my stomach will literally begin the process of rejecting food as soon as it enters my mouth if I have not taken MM within an hour before eating.

The small bowel resection did fix the appetite problem for almost a year and I stopped marijuana
use during that time, but the same problems returned late last summer.

I reacted horribly to Remicade infusions, which created four hours of misery each session at the cost of $36,000/year. Still did nothing for my appetite.

My insurance decided that Humira is what they wanted to start paying for and it is much less of a hassle, but still a $24,000/year medication. Still does nothing for my appetite.

I moved to Colorado recently and was able to get my temporary license within 24 hours of establishing residency. My doctor travels to her clinics in Aspen, Carbondale, Glenwood Springs,
Rifle, and Grand Junction and prescribes marijuana almost exclusively. She is definitely somewhat of a hippy, but happens to be one with a Princeton education.

My town of 9,000 people has four dispensaries. Ten minutes down the road in Carbondale, a town half the size, there are eleven. The upcoming National Geo program mentioned earlier just completed their year of filming right in this area.

I get a free 1/8 each month from my designated dispensary and have also been given a rice crispy treat (85 mg of THC), cheeba chew, and a hand-rolled joint of the hog leg variety in the past week, all free of charge.

I am able to curb the pain and keep a vegetable that might not have been cooked long enough from ruining my day with debilitating gas buildup.
I now hike and ski weekly, which would be out of the question without this treatment. I maintain a healthy weight of 165-175 pounds after bottoming out at 125 just two summers ago. Life is good.
.

Mind telling us how you manages not to become addicted to heroin and crack?  We all KNOW the weed is THE gateway drug.

Sorry for the  :sarcasm:


Anyway, congrats on finding a stable fix for your problems.  I hope you continue to do well and maintain your health.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 21, 2012, 12:21:05 PM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's four years ago. It got bad enough that I had four feet of my small intestine cut out.

I maintain a healthy weight of 165-175 pounds after bottoming out at 125 just two summers ago. Life is good.

I think it noteworthy what Village resisted the urge to say.  Crohn's is consistently rated one of the highest syndrome's on the pain scale.  It is an absolute hell.  So before any of you law-and-order types start with your opinions that this is a self-serving statement to justify dude getting high, please be advised that some people's everyday existence is so dramatically worse than your own, that you can't even imagine it. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 21, 2012, 12:42:52 PM
Doc says I need a backiotomy.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Splurge on February 21, 2012, 12:43:50 PM
I was diagnosed with Crohn's four years ago. It got bad enough that I had four feet of my small intestine cut out.

Marijuana is the only way I can ingest food without my body rejecting it completely and it has been that way since a year before diagnosis and three years before surgery. I'm not talking about a weak appetite here...my stomach will literally begin the process of rejecting food as soon as it enters my mouth if I have not taken MM within an hour before eating.

The small bowel resection did fix the appetite problem for almost a year and I stopped marijuana use during that time, but the same problems returned late last summer.

I reacted horribly to Remicade infusions, which created four hours of misery each session at the cost of $36,000/year. Still did nothing for my appetite.

My insurance decided that Humira is what they wanted to start paying for and it is much less of a hassle, but still a $24,000/year medication. Still does nothing for my appetite.

I moved to Colorado recently and was able to get my temporary license within 24 hours of establishing residency. My doctor travels to her clinics in Aspen, Carbondale, Glenwood Springs, Rifle, and Grand Junction and prescribes marijuana almost exclusively. She is definitely somewhat of a hippy, but happens to be one with a Princeton education.

My town of 9,000 people has four dispensaries. Ten minutes down the road in Carbondale, a town half the size, there are eleven. The upcoming National Geo program mentioned earlier just completed their year of filming right in this area.

I get a free 1/8 each month from my designated dispensary and have also been given a rice crispy treat (85 mg of THC), cheeba chew, and a hand-rolled joint of the hog leg variety in the past week, all free of charge.

I am able to curb the pain and keep a vegetable that might not have been cooked long enough from ruining my day with debilitating gas buildup.
I now hike and ski weekly, which would be out of the question without this treatment. I maintain a healthy weight of 165-175 pounds after bottoming out at 125 just two summers ago. Life is good.

Everyday I look, find, and make sure I note to myself at least one new thing to be thankful for. 

I have to be honest, after reading this, today's entry is "thank goodness that I'm not Villagehawg7 and have to deal with this horrible disease and pain."  Great attitude and toke up.   :thumbup: :beer:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 21, 2012, 06:34:44 PM
Thank you for educating all of us VillageHawg. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 21, 2012, 10:34:02 PM
Thank you for educating all of us VillageHawg.

No doubt.  Mad props indeed.  I hate it that you have to live with that shit.

That being said, I'm so tired of the arguments to legalize weed always seeming to end up using medicinal use as a crutch (which, by the way, is not at all what VillageHawg was doing).  The medical uses for it are just that much more reason for the fucking nonsense to stop.  Why doesn't alcohol need to have a medicinal use to be legal?  For the guys out there like VillageHawg, I would be happy to see some legislation passed to at least allow medicinal use.  But the ass inside me really wants to tell the government to go suck a dick, and don't come at me half-steppin' because this shit goes way deeper than that.  It's my god damned body and it ain't hurting nobody else if I choose to put one in the air.  Our government and its constant over-reaching is deplorable. 

People are enjoying their lives less and, in some cases, suffering as a result of a large number of cocky, square bastards that think the fact that they've never smoked a doob puts them on some moral high ground.  Fuck off fags.  Go fuck your wife from the missionary position and leave the thinking people alone.

Smoking weed is a gateway to a lot of things when you derive causality from statistics and have grits for brains.  There is one hell of a difference between weed and the next drug up the scale in terms of overall effect.  Our laws make the mistake of classifying weed in a group with a bunch of other, way more harmful substances.  So when the day comes that you finally decide that the gig's up on what you've been sold your whole life and you decide to smoke a little herb, your first thought is generally that it isn't what you thought it would be.  And the assumption is made that maybe the other drugs aren't as dangerous as you thought, and that's where you'd be fucking wrong. 

I personally don't give a fuck what anyone does as long is it doesn't negatively affect me and my family.  And I don't understand why anyone else does, either.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 01:53:58 AM
No doubt.  Mad props indeed.  I hate it that you have to live with that shit.

That being said, I'm so tired of the arguments to legalize weed always seeming to end up using medicinal use as a crutch (which, by the way, is not at all what VillageHawg was doing).  The medical uses for it are just that much more reason for the fucking nonsense to stop.  Why doesn't alcohol need to have a medicinal use to be legal?  For the guys out there like VillageHawg, I would be happy to see some legislation passed to at least allow medicinal use.  But the ass inside me really wants to tell the government to go suck a dick, and don't come at me half-steppin' because this shit goes way deeper than that.  It's my god damned body and it ain't hurting nobody else if I choose to put one in the air.  Our government and its constant over-reaching is deplorable. 

People are enjoying their lives less and, in some cases, suffering as a result of a large number of cocky, square bastards that think the fact that they've never smoked a doob puts them on some moral high ground.  Fuck off fags.  Go fuck your wife from the missionary position and leave the thinking people alone.

Smoking weed is a gateway to a lot of things when you derive causality from statistics and have grits for brains.  There is one hell of a difference between weed and the next drug up the scale in terms of overall effect.  Our laws make the mistake of classifying weed in a group with a bunch of other, way more harmful substances.  So when the day comes that you finally decide that the gig's up on what you've been sold your whole life and you decide to smoke a little herb, your first thought is generally that it isn't what you thought it would be.  And the assumption is made that maybe the other drugs aren't as dangerous as you thought, and that's where you'd be fucking wrong. 

I personally don't give a fuck what anyone does as long is it doesn't negatively affect me and my family.  And I don't understand why anyone else does, either.

Kill the christians.  Kill them tonight. 

DARE does more harm than good, and has since its inception.  Once a teenager realizes they've been told one lie, it's all lies to them.  Stupid naive bullshit doesn't fly with the kids.

You want to keep kids off meth and heroin, hire a stoner to teach them.  You hire a recovering junkie or a naive christian to teach them, and it's over immediately.  Kids don't listen to hypocrites or morons.

Pot is a plant.  It is not a drug.  Drugs are compound chemicals.  Government hypocrites can't change reality no matter how hard they try.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on February 22, 2012, 07:19:42 AM
Kill the christians.  Kill them tonight. 

DARE does more harm than good, and has since its inception.  Once a teenager realizes they've been told one lie, it's all lies to them.  Stupid naive bullshit doesn't fly with the kids.

You want to keep kids off meth and heroin, hire a stoner to teach them.  You hire a recovering junkie or a naive christian to teach them, and it's over immediately.  Kids don't listen to hypocrites or morons.

Pot is a plant.  It is not a drug.  Drugs are compound chemicals.  Government hypocrites can't change reality no matter how hard they try.

 ::)

Sigh.  Sometimes your over-the-top conversation starters are a little much. 

Not all Christians are hypocritic morons any more than all pot-smokers are unicorn collecting, arrowhead searching, porn watching meth heads in training.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 11:52:59 AM
::)

Sigh.  Sometimes your over-the-top conversation starters are a little much. 

Not all Christians are hypocritic morons any more than all pot-smokers are unicorn collecting, arrowhead searching, porn watching meth heads in training.

It was a joke.

"Kill the Lawyers.  Kill them tonight."

But I'm dead serious about DARE.  DARE's turned out more junkies than Krispy Kreme.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 22, 2012, 11:53:20 AM
::)

Sigh.  Sometimes your over-the-top conversation starters are a little much. 

Not all Christians are hypocritic morons any more than all pot-smokers are unicorn collecting, arrowhead searching, porn watching meth heads in training.

Ima have to agree with this.  I'm a pot smoker AND a Christian.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 11:55:57 AM
Ima have to agree with this.  I'm a pot smoker AND a Christian.

Judas.  Henley, Don.  Ever heard of him?   :)

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight

You don't want to work; you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak

You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ***

Get over it
Get over it
All this *****in' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 22, 2012, 12:07:26 PM
Judas.  Henley, Don.  Ever heard of him?   :)

I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight

You don't want to work; you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losin' streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak

You drag it around like a ball and chain
You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
Complain about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ***

Get over it
Get over it
All this *****in' and moanin' and pitchin' a fit
Get over it, get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit
Get over it, get over it

I actually caught that, a rare one for my dumb ass. ::)


I guess my point was similar to Ghandi or the Dali Lammas
Or whoever said it..the quote about "I like your Christ, it's your Christians I have a problem with"
I see and know so many people who claim to be Christian but are in fact hiding behind Chriatianity and using it as a sort of shield from behind which they fling their particular brand of shit, whether it be the idiots from that "church" in Kansas or just self righteous asshats who disagree with how you choose to express your freedoms...I don't like being lumped into the same pile as them.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 12:11:12 PM
I actually caught that, a rare one for my dumb ass. ::)


I guess my point was similar to Ghandi or the Dali Lammas
Or whoever said it..the quote about "I like your Christ, it's your Christians I have a problem with"
I see and know so many people who claim to be Christian but are in fact hiding behind Chriatianity and using it as a sort of shield from behind which they fling their particular brand of shit, whether it be the idiots from that "church" in Kansas or just self righteous asshats who disagree with how you choose to express your freedoms...I don't like being lumped into the same pile as them.

Well, hell, it seemed clever and funny when I typed it at 4 am.   :angel: 

Didn't mean to offend anyone, and I sure didn't mean to turn this into a religious discussion.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on February 22, 2012, 12:13:29 PM
It was a joke.

"Kill the Lawyers.  Kill them tonight."

But I'm dead serious about DARE.  DARE's turned out more junkies than Krispy Kreme.

Missed it...I'm a moron.

My nephew, a senior in high school, agrees with 110% of your statement about DARE.  He had a bit of a time making my sister understand his reasoning why he stayed away from the DARE program.   

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 12:20:28 PM
Missed it...I'm a moron.

My nephew, a senior in high school, agrees with 110% of your statement about DARE.  He had a bit of a time making my sister understand his reasoning why he stayed away from the DARE program.

I explained it to my kid right up front.

"They're lying about pot."

I was afraid she might fall prey one of these days if she fell for their bullshit.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Arkansas Proud on February 22, 2012, 12:21:59 PM
You hire a recovering junkie or a naive christian to teach them, and it's over immediately.  Kids don't listen to hypocrites or morons.

Don't know how you equate this with hypocrisy.  It's just like the drug commercials where they say, "it's okay to be a hypocrite".  Just doesn't make any sense logically.

A person is not a hypocrite if they realize they were stupid and changed their ways and now they're telling other people not to start.  It's like the government spent millions on a national ad campaign where the people they hired don't even know the meaning of the word hypocrite. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 22, 2012, 12:33:34 PM
::)

Sigh.  Sometimes your over-the-top conversation starters are a little much. 

Not all Christians are hypocritic morons any more than all pot-smokers are unicorn collecting, arrowhead searching, porn watching meth heads in training.

Ok, maybe that's my problem.  I started with the meff and herone, THEN went to porn.  Is that why I sometimes catch myself using a shortened straw to snort KY jelly while watching female ejaculation vids?  I knew I was doing it wrong somehow. 

Anyway, I get a kick out of the posturing among addicts. "My drug of choice is ok, but YOUR drug of choice is truly deplorable/dangerous." If you know someone who's been to rehab lately ask them about it.  You are really looked down on if you're just an alcoholic.  No respect.  I'm a free-choice Libertarian, so I wouldn't mind if most drugs were totally legal and large segments of our society were completely addicted and unable to work.  For those with self-control, that would mean less competition in the job marketplace and a distinct earning advantage.  Of course, society wouldn't be able to grant addicts driver's licenses, or access to high-power weaponry, or support them on welfare.  They would have to lead a very spartan existence, but if you've ever known a junkie they don't really need that much anyway.

And yes, I realize that it is important in the cannabis legalization effort to distinguish between substances, and I think that is a proper strategy, but I saw a show that reported that heroin use is actually less toxic on one's overall health than inhaling tar-filled smoke from incinerated plant material, and that heroin users could possibly live longer than non-users (if they had access to standardized quality and dosage so they could keep from overdosing, lol), due to slowing down the body's respiratory and cardiovascular systems. 

Why do we have to pay our fairly-earned cash for the wars/arrests/incarcerations?  It will never change the fact that people will exercise their free will and make their own decisions. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 22, 2012, 12:35:42 PM
Don't know how you equate this with hypocrisy.  It's just like the drug commercials where they say, "it's okay to be a hypocrite".  Just doesn't make any sense logically.

A person is not a hypocrite if they realize they were stupid and changed their ways and now they're telling other people not to start.  It's like the government spent millions on a national ad campaign where the people they hired don't even know the meaning of the word hypocrite.

No, but they might be a moron.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 22, 2012, 02:26:40 PM
I got (though it took a second the Henley-Shakespeare send up but this was a great line:

::)

Sigh.  Sometimes your over-the-top conversation starters are a little much. 


 ;D
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 22, 2012, 06:02:33 PM
Far be it for me to be any kind of authority on religion and whatnot, but I've heard Catholic Priests explain more than once that smoking marijuana isn't any big sin.... then they both started in to that whole "you just need to take care of your body, the temple, etc yada yada yada".  Catholics can drink booze, smoke pot, etc... or all the Catholics I've ever grown up around and been associated with.


Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 22, 2012, 08:13:57 PM
Far be it for me to be any kind of authority on religion and whatnot, but I've heard Catholic Priests explain more than once that smoking marijuana isn't any big sin.... then they both started in to that whole "you just need to take care of your body, the temple, etc yada yada yada".  Catholics can drink booze, smoke pot, etc... or all the Catholics I've ever grown up around and been associated with.

Baptists and methoists and pedestrians and printiscostals all do too, they just don't have a man in a dress telling them it's ok.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Cerdo on February 22, 2012, 08:23:26 PM
We had beer at all kinds of Catholic church gatherings.... obviously all the kids drink wine at communion, etc.  I've seen Priests smoking cigars and pipes and whatever, hell, in my Catholic school growing up all the priests drank and smoked, heck, you'd see them at the bar. 

Catholics have a brazillion problems that are all centered around sexual issues - antiquated pregnancy and celibacy issues, that are running parishioners off in droves.  You can keep the Catholic church out of the conversation when it comes to pot and booze though. 

That's an issue with all the Puritan descended contemporary American versions of Christianity. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: VillageHawg7 on February 22, 2012, 08:34:08 PM
The owner of one of the dispensaries here invited me to a church right down the road in New Castle. He said he was more apt to come across the counter and lay hands on me in prayer than charge me five bucks for a joint. He's a farmer from Florida that grows at his ranch in Rifle and runs his dispensary in Glenwood Springs. He said he didn't make the decision to go into the business until after meeting with the elders at his church.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 22, 2012, 08:49:56 PM
We had beer at all kinds of Catholic church gatherings....

Yessir.  Drank on the keg at the Knights of Columbus meeting just last week.  Although technically, the Knights own that building, not the Church. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: papermill on February 23, 2012, 03:53:36 AM
It was a joke.

"Kill the Lawyers.  Kill them tonight."

But I'm dead serious about DARE.  DARE's turned out more junkies than Krispy Kreme.

Kill the lawyers is a joke?

It's real to me dammit.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 23, 2012, 08:53:59 AM


That's an issue with all the Puritan descended contemporary American versions of Christianity (in the south).
Fixed that. You'd be surprised how many pastors and church members have no problem with having a beer, and it's a growing movement among Christians to realize it's ok to have a beer and especially if that is the best way to meet and talk with someone that wants to talk to you about church stuff. Places like Seattle and Colorado it's really common, but there is a pastor in Dallas at a fairly large church who is very open about feeling like it's ok to have a beer. You just won't see any of that among the older bible belt crowd, but outside of that it's pretty common.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 23, 2012, 11:07:13 AM
Somebody - I think it was Garrison Keiler - said, "Lutherans are very open and joyful in their drinking and very private and reserved in their worship.  Baptists are very open and joyful in their worship and very private in their drinking."
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 23, 2012, 12:03:06 PM
I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 23, 2012, 12:09:28 PM
I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?

Personally I don't care what folks stick in their body but meth is a toxic chemical and should be regulated like any other toxic chemical.  There's no safe way to make it that I know of and it creates a hazardous environment for people, particularly kids, to live in.  So I guess I would be ok for legalizing it for recreational use but there should be stiff penalties for anyone trying to make their own.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 23, 2012, 12:13:53 PM
I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?

I know this will draw fire but I say legalize it.
If it's legal there will be little to no profit in it for the makers, the messicans will stop trafficking it, I will be able to buy sudafed again...all will be right with the world come alergy season.

Users are going to use, nO matter what.  Might as well take the profit out of it for the criminal element and free up tons of tax dollars spent fighting
A Losing drug war, "punishing" drug users with prison at taxpayers expense...
It will never happen because there is entirely to much money to be made on all sides.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTuba on February 23, 2012, 01:37:37 PM
I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?

Not sure how I feel about legalizing it (though Snoop has good points) I DO think that treating it as a criminal activity solves nothing, and rehabilitation is a far better solution than locking methheads in prison/Missouri
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on February 23, 2012, 01:44:51 PM
Eh, I don't know if I want to drive the I-55 with a bunch of tweaked out meth heads. 

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 23, 2012, 01:50:40 PM
I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?

I'm a Libertarian, so I really am not concerned so long as others people aren't harmed in the manufacture or use of it.  This can get a little complicated in practice.  I feel a single man who lives alone and smokes crack is in no way doing anything illegal.  But if that same man has a couple kids and they get exposed to the drug itself or suffer as a result of their dad's use of the drug (e.g., no cereal/milk for breaskfast because daddy spent his last $20 on a rock last night), that's crossing the line if you ask me.  Same thing with manufacture - if you can make it without putting anyone other than yourself in harm's way, go for it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: JDHog on February 23, 2012, 01:51:57 PM
Fixed that. You'd be surprised how many pastors and church members have no problem with having a beer, and it's a growing movement among Christians to realize it's ok to have a beer and especially if that is the best way to meet and talk with someone that wants to talk to you about church stuff. Places like Seattle and Colorado it's really common, but there is a pastor in Dallas at a fairly large church who is very open about feeling like it's ok to have a beer. You just won't see any of that among the older bible belt crowd, but outside of that it's pretty common.

I've drank beer with several preachers, including my current preacher. 

I'm curious, seeing the LOL MIzz post about meth and thinking of this thread. Those of you that are passionate about weed being legalized or decriminalized, what do you think of meth? I assume some will be consistent in that the government shouldn't control any "drugs" and meth should be ok, but I also assume some will think the line stops at meth since it can hurt other people with exploding labs.

How should the government handle meth users and makers?

I wish they'd legalize Sudafed.  Frick a prescription.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on February 23, 2012, 02:53:35 PM
Man, all you f'ing hippies just need to shut the fuck up about our taxes.  It's the law and if King George says we have to pay our taxes without representation in Parliament, so be it. 

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 23, 2012, 03:01:05 PM
I wish they'd legalize Sudafed.  Frick a prescription.
You'd hate my thoughts on DXM
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Phat_Hawg on February 23, 2012, 03:07:37 PM
Eh, I don't know if I want to drive the I-55 with a bunch of tweaked out meth heads.

Hate to break it to you but you already are.

I'm a Libertarian, so I really am not concerned so long as others people aren't harmed in the manufacture or use of it.  This can get a little complicated in practice.  I feel a single man who lives alone and smokes crack is in no way doing anything illegal.  But if that same man has a couple kids and they get exposed to the drug itself or suffer as a result of their dad's use of the drug (e.g., no cereal/milk for breaskfast because daddy spent his last $20 on a rock last night), that's crossing the line if you ask me.  Same thing with manufacture - if you can make it without putting anyone other than yourself in harm's way, go for it.

I understand your concerns but the fact is these addicts are already doing this and we do have laws already in place that at least try and protect kids from worthless parents.  All these arguments could also be made for outlawing booze, gambling, and other vices that people get addicted.

Meth is some addictive nasty stuff so it is a difficult question.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: JDHog on February 23, 2012, 03:38:12 PM
You'd hate my thoughts on DXM

Please expound. 

**edit**

Because I'm always looking for new ways to get high. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 23, 2012, 04:35:56 PM
Meth may be the most dangerous drug; therefore, from a standpoint of practicality, it's probably more important that it be legalized than the others.

Prohibition does not fix or alleviate drug problems.  It magnifies and perpetuates them (for example, meth almost certainly wouldn't exist if drugs were legal).

You don't want people doing heroin or meth?  Legalize, educate, and mitigate.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 23, 2012, 04:43:55 PM
Meth may be the most dangerous drug; therefore, from a standpoint of practicality, it's probably more important that it be legalized than the others.

Prohibition does not fix or alleviate drug problems.  It magnifies and perpetuates them (for example, meth almost certainly wouldn't exist if drugs were legal).

You don't want people doing heroin or meth?  Legalize, educate, and mitigate.


:thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: LashHog on February 23, 2012, 04:54:11 PM
Meth may be the most dangerous drug; therefore, from a standpoint of practicality, it's probably more important that it be legalized than the others.

Prohibition does not fix or alleviate drug problems.  It magnifies and perpetuates them (for example, meth almost certainly wouldn't exist if drugs were legal).

You don't want people doing heroin or meth?  Legalize, educate, and mitigate.
I know you've researched this a ton, so I'm not asking as an argument but out of curiosity. If legalizing drugs ends use, why is alcohol so huge? I understand prohibition created more crime with bootleggers and such but I'd guess fewer people drank during that time than they do now. How is legalizing all drugs going to end the use of heroin and meth?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 23, 2012, 05:05:12 PM
As stated, all drugs should in theory be legal, but I worry about substances that cause real hallucinations.  I'm not talking about seeing the walls melt when you drop some good blotter, either.  I mean the real voices that start telling you to do things, the actually seeing things that aren't there and the accompanying need to get your guns and load them to "stay safe."

People aren't designed to run numerous consecutive days with no sleep.  So I would be concerned about major long-acting stimulants.  However, my concerns could be allayed with research conducted on bipolar patients in the manic phase and their apparent danger to society.  Currently, about 2-4% of the US adult population is considered to be Bipolar I or II (severe enough to have been hospitalized due to mania).  Given their unique disorder, these folks would just about equal your average meth user on 3 days or more of no sleep.  We're not hearing about a crime wave of bipolar mania patients, so maybe the absolute effects of meth abuse in public wouldn't be as bad as we fear. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 23, 2012, 05:12:27 PM
If legalizing drugs ends use, why is alcohol so huge?

The drive to reach an alternative state of consciousness is one of the strongest and most universal drives associated with homo sapiens.  We will never change that.  It'd be like telling errybody to quit fucking, or quit eating.  In fact, its just like telling teenagers not to fuck.  A few special cases can manage it, but not many. 
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 23, 2012, 05:27:44 PM
I know you've researched this a ton, so I'm not asking as an argument but out of curiosity. If legalizing drugs ends use, why is alcohol so huge? I understand prohibition created more crime with bootleggers and such but I'd guess fewer people drank during that time than they do now. How is legalizing all drugs going to end the use of heroin and meth?

I can't say with authority that more or less people drank during prohibition, but I can tell you that there were more speakeasies in NYC during Prohibition than there are liquor stores there now, there were more DUIs etc etc.

Nothing is going to end drug use.  The best you can do is educate, and treat those who abuse as what they are, people with health problems (yes, self-inflicted health problems).

Legalizing does not end use or end the associated problems of use.  It simply allows you more regulatory control over the use, and greatly decreases the associated problems.   
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTat on February 23, 2012, 05:42:39 PM
Legalizing does not end use or end the associated problems of use.  It simply allows you more regulatory control over the use, and greatly decreases the associated problems.   

I'd agree with the last portion of this statement for certain.  With the drug being illegal, you never know what it really contains.  Even marijuana can be laced.  (There was some nasty stuff coming into Arkansas where they sprayed Kansas ditch weed with bug spray.)  So health problems tend to be more prevalent.  Second, you have crime on two levels.  One, the manufacture and sale, and two, crimes committed to support a habit.
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 23, 2012, 05:45:41 PM
(There was some nasty stuff coming into Arkansas where they sprayed Kansas ditch weed with bug spray.) 

That wasn't bug spray.  Paraquat.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 23, 2012, 05:53:05 PM
(for example, meth almost certainly wouldn't exist if drugs were legal).


you do know that meth has been around for a long , long time right? This statement is completely false. I mean fuck, hitler and the natzis took meth
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 23, 2012, 05:56:19 PM
you do know that meth has been around for a long , long time right? This statement is completely false. I mean fuck, hitler and the natzis took meth

You do realize there are several degrees of separation between the amphetimines they were banging and bathtub crank, right?
Title: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 23, 2012, 05:59:20 PM
You do realize there are several degrees of separation between the amphetimines they were banging and bathtub crank, right?
oh, so only the kind you were talking about wouldnt exist, but all the other kinds would. i get it now
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: bigghurtt on February 23, 2012, 06:03:02 PM
oh, so only the kind you were talking about wouldnt exist, but all the other kinds would. i get it now

The kind that is very dangerous, which is caused by the prohibition, is what I'm talking about.  I thought the context would have made that obvious, as I referred to it as maybe the most dangerous drug, and the substances you're talking about were widely used and prescribed for medical (and yes, combat) purposes through the late 60s.
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 23, 2012, 06:23:38 PM
The kind that is very dangerous, which is caused by the prohibition, is what I'm talking about.  I thought the context would have made that obvious, as I referred to it as maybe the most dangerous drug, and the substances you're talking about were widely used and prescribed for medical (and yes, combat) purposes through the late 60s.

Correctamundo.  There's a big difference between amphetamines (Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse) and crystal methamphetamine.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 23, 2012, 07:28:18 PM
Maybe instead of keeping possession by itself illegal we could add a sentence multiplier to crimes committed by people who are under the influence of or in possession of drugs.  Get caught with an eight ball and you're clear.  Get caught with an eight ball with your kids in the car and you're going away for ten years. Get fucked up out of your gourd on meth?  Have a nice day.  Break into someone's car or house with meth in your system?  Hello WCDC thread and many years of involuntary buttseks. 

That's where the problem comes in with drugs.  I couldn't give a shit any less if you want to fry your brains or punch needle holes in every square inch of your emaciated body, as long as you aren't fucking up someone else's life in the process. 
 

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on February 23, 2012, 07:37:06 PM
Maybe instead of keeping possession by itself illegal we could add a sentence multiplier to crimes committed by people who are under the influence of or in possession of drugs.  Get caught with an eight ball and you're clear.  Get caught with an eight ball with your kids in the car and you're going away for ten years. Get fucked up out of your gourd on meth?  Have a nice day.  Break into someone's car or house with meth in your system?  Hello WCDC thread and many years of involuntary buttseks. 

That's where the problem comes in with drugs.  I couldn't give a shit any less if you want to fry your brains or punch needle holes in every square inch of your emaciated body, as long as you aren't fucking up someone else's life in the process.

I agree with the second paragraph wholeheartedly.  And the first paragraph is an interesting take I haven't considered or heard proferred before.  The only problem I see with it is that I hope there's no intent to curb behavior with such laws, because it won't.  But our system is already punitive by nature, so on that level I'm fine with it. 

Unless it says you can shoot suspected drug users on sight, any new law will do nothing to curb the behavior of addicts.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: copenhaWgen on February 23, 2012, 08:13:59 PM
I think we should start rewarding kids for not doing drugs.  This is how the Navy trains dolphins to clear mine fields.  They can't punish a dolphin really, it will just swim away.  So they figured out the sequence that needed to occur (ladder drill) and reinforced desired behavior.

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: jesus on February 23, 2012, 08:19:17 PM

Please expound. 

**edit**

Because I'm always looking for new ways to get high.



He's talking about Skittling (http://www.drugaddictiontreatment.com/addiction-in-the-news/addiction-news/skittling-drug-habit-preteens-teens/).
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ArkGuy on February 23, 2012, 08:28:55 PM
I think we should start rewarding kids for not doing drugs.  This is how the Navy trains dolphins to clear mine fields.  They can't punish a dolphin really, it will just swim away.  So they figured out the sequence that needed to occur (ladder drill) and reinforced desired behavior.

David Lee was a dolphin trainer?

That explains a lot.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 23, 2012, 08:44:42 PM
David Lee was a dolphin trainer?

That explains a lot.

Who do you think learned the wildcat to the NFLs?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on February 23, 2012, 08:47:39 PM
you do know that meth has been around for a long , long time right? This statement is completely false. I mean fuck, hitler and the natzis took meth

This is one of the biggest problems of all right here...lack of education and misinformation.

Shitfuck man, read a little bit.  Things not on the Internet if you can find them.
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 23, 2012, 10:32:58 PM
Correctamundo.  There's a big difference between amphetamines (Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse) and crystal methamphetamine.

Adderall is four types of methamphetamine, four different amphetamine salts to be exact, mixed together to get the right absorption and extended release effect.  The manufacturer calls it D-amphetamine or Dextro-Amphetamine, but that's kind of a frequently-played game in the pharma world, employed to safeguard the public image, and maybe protect the patent life.  It actually comes up positive for meth on a lot of first-level drug tests because two of the salts are straight amphetamine, but I think some more expensive follow-up tests can distinguish between street meth and adderall by looking for all four of the individual salts rather than just one.  I'm not sure the differences between the two are that significant except with regards to the initial rush which is more pronounced with smoking/snorting/injecting the street version.  Ever talked to an adderall-naive person (a normal, non-ADD person) on their first big dose?  They are high.  Really high.  Its scheduled Class II and has extensive abuse labeling.

Ritalin and Vyvanse are different molecules. 

Oh, and US military pilots are still using amphetamine every day around the world for certain flights/missions that require vigilance over an extended time period. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: boartitz on February 24, 2012, 02:37:16 AM
I think we should start rewarding kids for not doing drugs.  This is how the Navy trains dolphins to clear mine fields.  They can't punish a dolphin really, it will just swim away.  So they figured out the sequence that needed to occur (ladder drill) and reinforced desired behavior.
One bad job and "BOOM".
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: papermill on February 24, 2012, 02:58:16 AM
One bad job and "BOOM".

Speaking of one bad job and boom,  I have never figured out how anybody ever got good at gladiating.  It seems like somebody would kill you before you figured it out.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on February 24, 2012, 07:21:35 AM
Speaking of one bad job and boom,  I have never figured out how anybody ever got good at gladiating.  It seems like somebody would kill you before you figured it out.

They practice with wooden spears and shit.

Then Lucy Lawless shows her tits.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 24, 2012, 09:42:39 AM
Adderall is four types of methamphetamine, four different amphetamine salts to be exact, mixed together to get the right absorption and extended release effect.  The manufacturer calls it D-amphetamine or Dextro-Amphetamine, but that's kind of a frequently-played game in the pharma world, employed to safeguard the public image, and maybe protect the patent life.  It actually comes up positive for meth on a lot of first-level drug tests because two of the salts are straight amphetamine, but I think some more expensive follow-up tests can distinguish between street meth and adderall by looking for all four of the individual salts rather than just one.  I'm not sure the differences between the two are that significant except with regards to the initial rush which is more pronounced with smoking/snorting/injecting the street version.  Ever talked to an adderall-naive person (a normal, non-ADD person) on their first big dose?  They are high.  Really high.  Its scheduled Class II and has extensive abuse labeling.

Ritalin and Vyvanse are different molecules. 

Oh, and US military pilots are still using amphetamine every day around the world for certain flights/missions that require vigilance over an extended time period.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, chief.  My point (poorly stated, admittedly), is that there's a big difference in pharmaceutical agents in terms of preparation, standardized dosing, delivery mechanisms, etc. than street-produced crank.  Not to even mention the heightened effect and increased abuse/addiction potential of the street drugs.

The pharmaceutical drugs I listed all belong to the amphetamine class (or have metabolic byproducts that are amphetamines).  Technically their mechanisms of action are all the same, but it's foolish to confabulate the pharmaceutical agents and the street drug, like HipHog did.

(And yes, they will all make you pop positive on a urine drug screen.)
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Peanut Adams on February 24, 2012, 09:50:36 AM
Ever talked to an adderall-naive person (a normal, non-ADD person) on their first big dose?  They are high.  Really high.  Its scheduled Class II and has extensive abuse labeling.

way, way high. my sophmore year on the hill was tough and this "new thing" called adderall was supposed to help you study better. in two days i had a script, by simply filling out a survey and providing answers that they wanted to hear. there was no real scientific determination before giving me the pharmaceutical grade meth. this isnt a rant against them, it was my fault for pursuing it, but the ease with which it can be obtained is scary.

first day i got them i took one and played pool in the basement of yocum for 5 hours straight......by myself. realstunned
by the end of the first semester on them, my daily food intake was a few snickers bars and sodas. my evenings were spent highlighting textbooks and recopying class notes, over and over.
i know that neurotic behavior like i experienced wont be the same for everyone. but i think if someone doesnt truly have the deficit that the medicine is supposed to treat, it ends up being really ugly.
luckily after using heavily and increasing dosage throughout the next year, i realized it was killing me and weened myself off.

the saddest part is that there are young kids that truly do have some sort of attention problem, but to me, the majority of the cases are just bad parents who have raised some unruly brats. and instead of acknowledging the real problem, they blame biology and try to solve it with speed. kid goes into high school or college dependant on stimulants...thanks mom and dad.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: DirkPiggler on February 24, 2012, 10:02:30 AM
Question for you docs/ pharmacists, in an attempt to further derail the thread. 

I've been told that if you actually have ADD/ADHD the Adderall or other drugs actually make you feel normal.  Supposedly they help settle you down.  From experience I know that if you don't have one of these disorders they will get you buzzing about as well as anything. 

Is this legit or is it bullshit? 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 24, 2012, 10:14:31 AM
Question for you docs/ pharmacists, in an attempt to further derail the thread. 

I've been told that if you actually have ADD/ADHD the Adderall or other drugs actually make you feel normal.  Supposedly they help settle you down.  From experience I know that if you don't have one of these disorders they will get you buzzing about as well as anything. 

Is this legit or is it bullshit?

I don't actually have AD(H)D and I've never taken any of the amphetamines, so I can't say from experience.  I think that "normal" is not really the right word.  From what we're taught, and from what parents say, the amphetamine-class drugs don't decrease energy.  They're certainly not tranquilizers by any means.  But the effect on neurotransmitter chemistry allows the AD(H)D kids to maintain more focus at school.  That's really what it's about.  I know a lot of parents that hold their kid's Ritalin or Adderall on the weekends and just let the kid run around all day.  For a person that is not hyperactive and attention-deficient at baseline, then the effects experienced are those of amphetamine intoxication -- increased energy, goal-directed activity, cardiovascular stimulation, decreased appetite, etc.  AD(H)D kids also experience some of those -- they have to take their meds in the morning or they won't be able to sleep, some kids have decreased appetite and stop gaining weight, etc.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 24, 2012, 02:49:12 PM
Question for you docs/ pharmacists, in an attempt to further derail the thread. 

I've been told that if you actually have ADD/ADHD the Adderall or other drugs actually make you feel normal.  Supposedly they help settle you down.  From experience I know that if you don't have one of these disorders they will get you buzzing about as well as anything. 

Is this legit or is it bullshit?

More legit than BS.
Title: Re: Re: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 24, 2012, 07:52:35 PM
You're not telling me anything I don't already know, chief.  My point (poorly stated, admittedly), is that there's a big difference in pharmaceutical agents in terms of preparation, standardized dosing, delivery mechanisms, etc. than street-produced crank.  Not to even mention the heightened effect and increased abuse/addiction potential of the street drugs.

The pharmaceutical drugs I listed all belong to the amphetamine class (or have metabolic byproducts that are amphetamines).  Technically their mechanisms of action are all the same, but it's foolish to confabulate the pharmaceutical agents and the street drug, like HipHog did.

(And yes, they will all make you pop positive on a urine drug screen.)
Fair enough.  I probably shouldn't have gone all adderall with such a wordy response anyways, when I just meant to say, in my opinion, there's not much difference in abuse potential. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Southern Yeoman on February 24, 2012, 08:23:53 PM
Legalize it all and let the gene pool sort it out.  Chief.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on February 25, 2012, 12:47:29 AM
I was diagnosed with ADHD in my thirties and have been on two doses of adderall a day ever since.  it took about a month to get used to it, until then I felt like I had drank way too much coffee each morning. After the month or so I felt very normal, more normal than ever possibly.  I can still get the jittery feeling if I drink too much caffeine, but mostly taking it keeps me normal.  It has a half life of 6 hrs, which means after 8 you are tired as shit and looking to crash.  It's a bitch on the days I forget the lunch dose, naturally being ADHD the forgetfulness happens alot. I never felt good or high after taking it, even when I first started, and I couldn't figure out what the hype was about taking it recreationally. I guess if your brain is wired correctly to begin with it fucks you up good, if your brain is fucked up to begin with it just works he opposite.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: boartitz on February 25, 2012, 01:24:05 AM
I was diagnosed with ADHD in my thirties and have been on two doses of adderall a day ever since.  it took about a month to get used to it, until then I felt like I had drank way too much coffee each morning. After the month or so I felt very normal, more normal than ever possibly.  I can still get the jittery feeling if I drink too much caffeine, but mostly taking it keeps me normal.  It has a half life of 6 hrs, which means after 8 you are tired as shit and looking to crash.  It's a bitch on the days I forget the lunch dose, naturally being ADHD the forgetfulness happens alot. I never felt good or high after taking it, even when I first started, and I couldn't figure out what the hype was about taking it recreationally. I guess if your brain is wired correctly to begin with it fucks you up good, if your brain is fucked up to begin with it just works he opposite.
Your folks should have just whupped yore ass when weren't acting right. This  shit is the new tonsil removal with drug manufacturers lobbyists all over it. Fuck this stuff.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 25, 2012, 06:39:05 AM
Your folks should have just whupped yore ass when weren't acting right. This  shit is the new tonsil removal with drug manufacturers lobbyists all over it. Fuck this stuff.
I hope this is sarcasm
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on February 25, 2012, 09:56:40 AM
Your folks should have just whupped yore ass when weren't acting right. This  shit is the new tonsil removal with drug manufacturers lobbyists all over it. Fuck this stuff.

why do you think I was in my thirties before I was diagnosed?  i had very strict parents and a bi-polar mom, i got teh ass beatings nearly daily.  and not the turn around so I can swat your hiney with my open hand kind of ass beatings.

i'm leading the charge when it comes to thinking that shit is way over-diagnosed because parents are just lazy fucks and don't want to raise their kids or teachers want an easy fix for a kid behaving normally and being disruptive in class. 

the more i learn about adhd the more I think the people that have it aren't getting help/medication, and the ones that don't have it are the ones that are getting medicated for it. there are varying degrees of adhd as far as how much it affects the person and there are some severe cases that are easy to id - these are the very few.  it seems it is quite common for people with adhd to be above average intelligence and even significantly above average.  so even with a brain operating off-kilter, they get through school without academic problems because their intelligence makes up for their day dreaming, forgetfulness, disruptiveness, impulsiveness, compulsiveness, etc.  for years the academics has been the tell used to begin testing, obviously that method is quite flawed.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 25, 2012, 11:11:02 PM
Your folks should have just whupped yore ass when weren't acting right. This  aMm is the new tonsil removal with drug manufacturers lobbyists all over it. frick this stuff.
I agree.
 Adhd is a made up disease to sell pharmaceuticals. There are a lot of diseases that doctors in line with pharmaceutical companies have made up to sell drugs to naive people who will believe anything a doctor tells them do. This is big business folks!

BASS. Of course you felt normal after a month of taking it. You are addicted to it. Why do you think you feel like shit when you miss your lunch dose ? because your body needs it. Which is addiction. Your brain after long term use will stop making certain chemicals because they are being supplemented by a drug which is why you couldnt quit cold turkey or you coild have a seizure.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 25, 2012, 11:17:16 PM
Your folks should have just whupped yore ass when weren't acting right. This  aMm is the new tonsil removal with drug manufacturers lobbyists all over it. frick this stuff.
I agree.
 Adhd is a made up disease to sell pharmaceuticals. There are a lot of diseases that doctors in line with pharmaceutical companies have made up to sell drugs to naive people who will believe anything a doctor tells them do. This is big business folks!

BASS. Of course you felt normal after a month of taking it. You are addicted to it. Why do you think you feel like shit when you miss your lunch dose ? because your body needs it. Which is addiction. Your brain after long term use will stop making certain chemicals because they are being supplemented by a drug which is why you couldnt quit cold turkey or you coild have a seizure.

Just because a drug is out there and prescribed doesnt mean it is safe. We don't even truly know over the course of an entire full lifetime of adderal use does to a human body and brain. It is called practicing medicine for a reason. We do know what a lifetime of most amphetamine usage does to a body and it isnt good especially for the brain.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 26, 2012, 06:53:00 AM
I agree.
 Adhd is a made up disease to sell pharmaceuticals. There are a lot of diseases that doctors in line with pharmaceutical companies have made up to sell drugs to naive people who will believe anything a doctor tells them do. This is big business folks!

BASS. Of course you felt normal after a month of taking it. You are addicted to it. Why do you think you feel like shit when you miss your lunch dose ? because your body needs it. Which is addiction. Your brain after long term use will stop making certain chemicals because they are being supplemented by a drug which is why you couldnt quit cold turkey or you coild have a seizure.
Apparently I wasted $200,000 4 years of med school and 4 years of my residency to learn a specialty that makes up diseases to make money.

You, sir, are a moron.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on February 26, 2012, 07:17:35 AM
I agree.
 Adhd is a made up disease to sell pharmaceuticals. There are a lot of diseases that doctors in line with pharmaceutical companies have made up to sell drugs to naive people who will believe anything a doctor tells them do. This is big business folks!

BASS. Of course you felt normal after a month of taking it. You are addicted to it. Why do you think you feel like shit when you miss your lunch dose ? because your body needs it. Which is addiction. Your brain after long term use will stop making certain chemicals because they are being supplemented by a drug which is why you couldnt quit cold turkey or you coild have a seizure.

Just because a drug is out there and prescribed doesnt mean it is safe. We don't even truly know over the course of an entire full lifetime of adderal use does to a human body and brain. It is called practicing medicine for a reason. We do know what a lifetime of most amphetamine usage does to a body and it isnt good especially for the brain.

Um.  I'm AD(H)D and beg to fucking differ with you, there.  Granted, I don't take shit for it...  And I got my ass whupped plenty of times as a kid.  Unfortunately, I was diagnosed young, shortly before it became all the rage in diagnosing misbehaving kids and wound up on Ritalin which DOES stunt growth - so I was short as fuck until I was a junior in HS.  I eventually quit taking it (thus finally getting a growth spurt), and just had to deal with the AD(H)D on my own.  But I can assure you, it is real. 

I do agree that often times kids are simply unruly and not actually suffering from ADD.  Shit is also over-prescribed.  Bass has the right of it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 26, 2012, 07:41:35 AM
I do agree that often times kids are simply unruly and not actually suffering from ADD.  Shit is also over-prescribed.  Bass has the right of it.
Children get the label ADD/ADHD too often because the right people aren't making the diagnosis. (Same goes with Bipolar Disorder.)
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 26, 2012, 08:20:53 AM
I think its possible that there are more diagnoses of ADD ADHD in this day and age because we are more and more inflexible about sticking our kids in school and making damn sure that they are absolutely still and quiet for 8 hours a day.  If you think about it, that's a fairly new phenomena in our evolution.  Just 5-10 generations ago(?) we didn't have school on a widespread basis and kids were likely outdoors working/playing in a stimulating environment where hands-on learning was the preferred method. 

In other words, ADD is real, but may only be a real problem to teachers whose jobs depend on the test scores of a class of 20+ kids. 

No kid left behind.  That shit just got real, yo.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 26, 2012, 08:26:03 AM
Apparently I wasted $200,000 4 years of med school and 4 years of my residency to learn a specialty that makes up diseases to make money.

You, sir, are a moron.

Motherfucking THIS.

Probably doesn't vaccinate his kids either. (Of course, everybody knows every MD in the country gets a $.50 royalty payment every time some clueless parents subject their precious little snowflakes to shots. They all get autism, too. ALL of them.)

Morans.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on February 26, 2012, 09:58:00 AM
Motherfucking THIS.

Probably doesn't vaccinate his kids either. (Of course, everybody knows every MD in the country gets a $.50 royalty payment every time some clueless parents subject their precious little snowflakes to shots. They all get autism, too. ALL of them.)

Morans.

yep, cuz a former playmate of the year said so and wrote a book about it.  and she is apparently hanging on to god's right hand cuz she cured her kid of the autism caused by teh vaccination shots, miracle worker she is, curing a genetic disease and all.  i bet all those playmates of the year are genus's.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Mike Slive on February 26, 2012, 10:20:17 AM
Now I realize you guys are predominately talking about legal meth but 60 minutes had a good special last week about the placebo effect.  It went as far to say that a guy getting arthroscopic knee surgery could be cut on only and get better just as fast as another guy who actually had the full operation.  It was mainly busting on the antidepressant's true value which he concluded to be none, except showing minor improvement from the medicine in only extreme cases.  I found it pretty interesting but I don't guess that helps Bass with his government control meth addiction.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 10:36:12 AM
Now I realize you guys are predominately talking about legal meth but 60 minutes had a good special last week about the placebo effect.  It went as far to say that a guy getting arthroscopic knee surgery could be cut on only and get better just as fast as another guy who actually had the full operation.  It was mainly busting on the antidepressant's true value which he concluded to be none, except showing minor improvement from the medicine in only extreme cases.  I found it pretty interesting but I don't guess that helps Bass with his government control meth addiction.
:thumbup:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 26, 2012, 10:36:47 AM
Now I realize you guys are predominately talking about legal meth but 60 minutes had a good special last week about the placebo effect.  It went as far to say that a guy getting arthroscopic knee surgery could be cut on only and get better just as fast as another guy who actually had the full operation.  It was mainly busting on the antidepressant's true value which he concluded to be none, except showing minor improvement from the medicine in only extreme cases.  I found it pretty interesting but I don't guess that helps Bass with his government control meth addiction.

I saw that story as well, though I haven't read the paper that was the inspiration for the story.  I don't think anyone will argue that there's a lot of medications, surgeries, etc. that are over-prescribed.  Part of it is defensive medicine, part of it is our pay-for-service system.  Knee arthroscopy in particular is a very controversial topic among orthopods.  They are FAR less common in Europe, for example.  But an orthopod here gets paid a menial amount for advising a patient to get PT, etc., and a lot more to do a knee 'scope.  Is that ethical?  Probably not, but the data are heterogeneous enough that an orthopod can usually make a valid argument as to why he did a particular procedure, based on the available data/literature.  Many other medications and treatments follow that same pattern.

The 60 Minutes story was very interesting, but it mentioned several times that the "placebo effect" of antidepressants did not apply to severely depressed individuals.  From what I understand there are pretty good data supporting antidepressant use in those people.  Now Death by Sooiecide can shed a lot more knowledge on this particular topic than me, but I was under the impression that mild/moderate depression was best treated with counseling methods, cognitive-behavioral therapy, etc. anyway.  Of course it's in the drug companies' interests to push their products as much as possible.  It doesn't help that the majority of patients seen today want the "quick fix," or something that involves minimal effort on their part.  That sort-of relates back to the knee 'scopes, too.  Nobody wants to do 3x/week PT for 8 weeks, when they're under the (mistaken) impression that the orthopod can "fix" the problem with surgery.  Likewise, nobody wants to do cognitive-behavioral therapy for hours a week when they can just take a pill every day & "feel better."  For many of the mildly depressed folks, or people with a temporary psychosocial stressor that's causing them mood problems, the placebo effect of the pill is probably enough.  Now I personally was rather intolerant of the side-effects of SSRI's, but many people can take them with very little adverse effect.  I believe drugs like buproprion (Wellbutrin) are even more "benign" than the SSRI's.

Over-treatment is a multifaceted issue, and one that unfortunately doesn't have an easy answer.  Total resolution of it would require a fundamental change to how doctors are reimbursed, a complete revolution in terms of how pharmaceutical companies function as profit-driven entities, as well as a shift in the cultural attitudes of Americans when it comes to personal responsibility & effort for one's health.  What it's NOT, however, is MD's & Big Pharma getting together and making up fake diseases so we can sell fake treatments and get everybody rich.  That is some black-helicopter shit.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 10:42:12 AM
 :logonew2:
Apparently I wasted $200,000 4 years of med school and 4 years of my residency to learn a specialty that makes up diseases to make money.

You, sir, are a moron.
If you feel guilty about something so be it. One of my best friends and long time brew buddies is an ER doc and he is great. He also agrees with me on pharmaceuticals. I think there are plenty of good doctors out tere working to help people and advance medicine. But dont act like what i said isnt happening at all. Just because you are a doctor doesnt mean you believe and support all doctors. it isnt a fraternity you dont have to stick up for your bros.
Nothing a doctor can tell i have is bad enough for me tAke amPhetamines daily for the rest of my life. There are other options.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTat on February 26, 2012, 10:48:03 AM
What it's NOT, however, is MD's & Big Pharma getting together and making up fake diseases so we can sell fake treatments and get everybody rich.  That is some black-helicopter shit.

This may be, but it is curious that we hear about a disease and the new treatment at the same time.  For all I know, people could be suffering with something and it never makes the news, but it does make a person look askance at the drug companies and question new available treatments.

(http://rtruth.blog.com/files/2011/09/51L4Wfj8CwL._SL360_-300x300.jpg)

I'd never heard of restless leg syndrome before the ads for the cure. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 10:57:02 AM
mfricking THIS.

Probably doesn't vaccinate his kids either. (Of course, everybody knows every MD in the country gets a $.50 royalty payment every time some clueless parents subject their precious little snowflakes to shots. They all get autism, too. ALL of them.)

Morans.
I wasnt talking about vaccinations. Perhaps reread what i wrote doc. Like i told the other guy if you feel guilty about something so be it. I dont have kids as i said way earlier in this thread. I can tell you that if i did vaccinations are important however i would want the doctor to be very specific with me on what is going in my childs body,  Which i think is fair. One thing i know for sure no matter what anyone tells me i will never put amphetamines into a growing develoPing child of mine especially with a none life threatening disease madeup to sell drugs. Think about it?  shoving fistfulls of amphetamines in to the brains of kids as young as 6? How on earth does anyone think it is a good idea even i there are "results".
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 26, 2012, 11:03:00 AM
I'd never heard of restless leg syndrome before the ads for the cure.

That's because "diseases" don't buy air time, chief.

Ever heard of Osler-Weber-Rendu Syndrome?  Ataxia-Telangietcasia?  Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome (types I, IIa, & IIb)?  HELLP?  Dysthymic disorder?  Prinzmetal's variant angina?  Takotsubo?

I can go all day. 

Again, no one is arguing that there aren't some "suspicious" disease entities out there, as well as ones that are massively over-diagnosed and over-treated.  Fibromyalgia is the one that comes to mind for me.  It has a specific diagnostic criteria, but I've yet to see a single patient that says they carry the diagnosis that actually meets criteria.  But again, a patient that comes in complaining of months of severe pain EVERYWHERE and is making a big fuss doesn't want to be told that their condition is likely psychosomatic and the best treatment is counseling.  Or if it is musculoskeletal in nature, they don't want to hear that the best treatment regimen is PT with strengthening & flexibility. 

I'm not saying that every MD in the world has pure motives.  Certainly not.  Or that it wouldn't help if docs as a species had a bigger backbone when it comes to treating (or not treating) patients with chronic pain disorders or likely psychosomatic symptoms.  And I'm not saying pharmaceutical companies don't have a profit motive that drives them to advertise and get their products prescribed as often as possible.  But 100% of the blame does not lie with docs or Big Pharma, and there is no vast conspiracy in the medical community to invent diseases with fake treatments.  It's not like we get a check from Eli Lily every time we write a 'scrip for Prozac, or from Teva if we prescribe Adderall.

I wasnt talking about vaccinations. Perhaps reread what i wrote doc. Like i told the other guy if you feel guilty about something so be it. I dont have kids as i said way earlier in this thread. I can tell you that if i did vaccinations are important however i would want the doctor to be very specific with me on what is going in my childs body,  Which i think is fair. One thing i know for sure no matter what anyone tells me i will never put amphetamines into a growing develoPing child of mine especially with a none life threatening disease madeup to sell drugs. Think about it?  shoving fistfulls of amphetamines in to the brains of kids as young as 6? How on earth does anyone think it is a good idea even i there are "results".

I was drawing a comparison between your illogical, ignorant view that ADHD is a made up disease so MD's & Pharma can push amphetamines on kids, and the illogical/ignorant view that vaccines are in some way harmful or cause autism.  I think all that ganj you've been smoking has fried a few too many neurons.

I don't feel "guilty" about a goddam thing.  It just grinds my gears more than it should when ignorant motherfucks like you talk out your asses and make us sound like criminals -- and other stupid motherfucks believe it.  I'm still pretty new at this, though.  Eventually I'll just stop giving a shit.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 11:14:45 AM
I saw that story as well, though I haven't read the paper that was the inspiration for the story.  I don't think anyone will argue that there's a lot of medications, surgeries, etc. that are over-prescribed.  Part of it is defensive medicine, part of it is our pay-for-service system.  Knee arthroscopy in particular is a very controversial topic among orthopods.  They are FAR less common in Europe, for example.  But an orthopod here gets paid a menial amount for advising a patient to get PT, etc., and a lot more to do a knee 'scope.  Is that ethical?  Probably not, but the data are heterogeneous enough that an orthopod can usually make a valid argument as to why he did a particular procedure, based on the available data/literature.  Many other medications and treatments follow that same pattern.

The 60 Minutes story was very interesting, but it mentioned several times that the "placebo effect" of antidepressants did not apply to severely depressed individuals.  From what I understand there are pretty good data supporting antidepressant use in those people.  Now Death by Sooiecide can shed a lot more knowledge on this particular topic than me, but I was under the impression that mild/moderate depression was best treated with counseling methods, cognitive-behavioral therapy, etc. anyway.  Of course it's in the drug companies' interests to push their products as much as possible.  It doesn't help that the majority of patients seen today want the "quick fix," or something that involves minimal effort on their part.  That sort-of relates back to the knee 'scopes, too.  Nobody wants to do 3x/week PT for 8 weeks, when they're under the (mistaken) impression that the orthopod can "fix" the problem with surgery.  Likewise, nobody wants to do cognitive-behavioral therapy for hours a week when they can just take a pill every day & "feel better."  For many of the mildly depressed folks, or people with a temporary psychosocial stressor that's causing them mood problems, the placebo effect of the pill is probably enough.  Now I personally was rather intolerant of the side-effects of SSRI's, but many people can take them with very little adverse effect.  I believe drugs like buproprion (Wellbutrin) are even more "benign" than the SSRI's.

Over-treatment is a multifaceted issue, and one that unfortunately doesn't have an easy answer.  Total resolution of it would require a fundamental change to how doctors are reimbursed, a complete revolution in terms of how pharmaceutical companies function as profit-driven entities, as well as a shift in the cultural attitudes of Americans when it comes to personal responsibility & effort for one's health.  What it's NOT, however, is MD's & Big Pharma getting together and making up fake diseases so we can sell fake treatments and get everybody rich.  That is some black-helicopter aMm.
I agree with you on the fact that most people are lazy and just want a quick fix by taking a pill. But this problem is perpetuated by the medical side constantly. people didnt know that theu had a specific "problem" or a "solution" until the doctor told them they had a "problem" and drug companies told them they had a "solution"

Also, tell your buddies to stop overtreating that is your "easy" solution you cant sEem to come up with.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 26, 2012, 11:31:50 AM
I agree with you on the fact that most people are lazy and just want a quick fix by taking a pill. But this problem is perpetuated by the medical side constantly. people didnt know that theu had a specific "problem" or a "solution" until the doctor told them they had a "problem" and drug companies told them they had a "solution"

Also, tell your buddies to stop overtreating that is your "easy" solution you cant sEem to come up with.

I can't fix stupid.  And I can't fix ignorance.  If someone is hell-bent on talking out of their ass on a subject they clearly know NOTHING about, nobody can stop them.  I'm just beating my head into a wall now.

I'll just leave you with this.


(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111228.gif) (http://"http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2475")
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HipHog on February 26, 2012, 11:40:18 AM
I can't fix stupid.  And I can't fix ignorance.  If someone is Starkville-bent on talking out of their ass on a subject they clearly know NOTHING about, nobody can stop them.  I'm just beating my head into a wall now.

I'll just leave you with this.


(http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20111228.gif) (http://"http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2475")
how long have you been waiting to use this graph?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 26, 2012, 11:41:25 AM
Meh. It is best I exit the thread at this point. No sense in discussing it further as far as I am concerned.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 11:43:17 AM

I'm not saying that every MD in the world has pure motives.  Certainly not.
So you are saying that i could be right? I never saId you or sooicide were doing this. I am sure you two are great doctors in it to truly help people. However, you got very defensive because i was putting down a certain contingent within your profession.

I think all that ganj you've been smoking has fried a few too many neurons.


Does that make you feel better big boy?


My bottom line: nothing on this planet justifies taking amphtamines daily lOng term. It is not good for your body and especially your brain. End of story.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on February 26, 2012, 12:00:07 PM
Meh. It is best I exit the thread at this point. No sense in discussing it further as far as I am concerned.

Yep.  The horse is dead, I'm pretty sure.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 12:09:03 PM
When does our baseball game start today?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on February 26, 2012, 12:20:44 PM
When does our baseball game start today?
1 cst I believe
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on February 26, 2012, 12:37:35 PM
1 cst I believe
WPS

Going to have a fresh altbier or two on my day off! Wish you and aphiohog could join i love good discussions. And i know we are all three cardinals fans so i know we could agree on some things!
Woohoo for baseball!! Finally here!
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on February 26, 2012, 12:50:25 PM
How does one go about getting some of this ADHD stuff?

I'm asking for a friend.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Stephen Hawging on February 26, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
Docs are good people that have sacrificed a lot and work their ass off.  99% are just trying to get through the day and do the best they can for their patients while trying to stay afloat while reimbursements dwindle. 

However, this is Amurika, and we all have to acknowledge that the pharma industry only has $$$ motives.  They can and do manipulate data, pay doctors to get on board, and then together (pharma through direct-to-consumer advertising, and the docs through paid speaking engagements to other docs) start driving the diagnoses. 

Every.  Day.  But that doesn't mean that the few properly prescribed patients aren't grateful for the meds.  It can be life-changing for them. 

Trouble is, under today's regulatory environment, it just isn't profitable to research, formulate, test and seek approval for a product that won't be widely-used.  One might say that over-prescription is the price we pay for innovation.  And let's face it, we all want that new med if we're the one with the malady. 

/pharmaveteran



Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogTat on February 26, 2012, 05:41:06 PM
That's because "diseases" don't buy air time, chief.

Ever heard of Osler-Weber-Rendu Syndrome?  Ataxia-Telangietcasia?  Multiple Endocrine Neoplasia syndrome (types I, IIa, & IIb)?  HELLP?  Dysthymic disorder?  Prinzmetal's variant angina?  Takotsubo?

Good point, I hadn't thought of it from that angle.


I think I know most all those you listed though:

1 - I got that from a three-way in Sweden.
2 - Drank the water in Mazatlan.
3 - Some girl I dated had lots of these.
4 - Another GF yelled that a lot when I tied her up.
5 - No idea.
6 - Was that the girl with the weird vagina that broke my heart?
7 - Bad sushi, I do believe...
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: libertyhog on March 01, 2012, 10:18:54 AM
I think this is an update:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/29/3774124/27-pounds-of-pot-46000-in-cash.html


Quote
FORT WORTH -- Police seized 2.7 pounds of marijuana, 1.5 ounces of prescription pills and controlled substances, nine weapons, and $46,243 in cash during a recent drug sting on and around the TCU campus, according to a report obtained Wednesday by the Star-Telegram.

And also, while searching for new info...I came across this.  /chortle

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2012/2/29/2833924/tcu-football-big-12-spring-practice

Quote
Will TCU's Defensive Backs Get Smoked By Big 12 Receivers?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on March 01, 2012, 08:01:35 PM
 *:
How does one go about getting some of this ADHD stuff?

I'm asking for a friend.

you're born with it.  but if you want to "get it", read the book Driven to Distraction, then go to your doctor and be like "holy shit, i've had this my whole life and didn't know" and start going through some of the symptoms from the book.  maybe they'll give you the drugs without making you get tested, which is about $200 and isn't covered by insurance.

and while i see some on here think that the drugs don't help, if you don't have adhd, no they don't.  they hype you up and keep you awake.  however, i've noticed a significant difference in the way i conduct myself at work, and my wife has told me many times how much of a difference she sees, such as my ability to carry on a conversation without tuning her out and day-dreaming after the first sentence.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: HogofWar on March 01, 2012, 08:25:15 PM
*:
you're born with it.  but if you want to "get it", read the book Driven to Distraction, then go to your doctor and be like "holy aMm, i've had this my whole life and didn't know" and start going through some of the symptoms from the book.  maybe they'll give you the drugs without making you get tested, which is about $200 and isn't covered by insurance.

and while i see some on here think that the drugs don't help, if you don't have adhd, no they don't.  they hype you up and keep you awake.  however, i've noticed a significant difference in the way i conduct myself at work, and my wife has told me many times how much of a difference she sees, such as my ability to carry on a conversation without tuning her out and day-dreaming after the first sentence.

O, my sweet, girthy, endowèd provider of penis!! All men must have ADHD if they tune out their wives rambling, right? :sarcasm:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on March 01, 2012, 09:29:02 PM
*:
you're born with it.  but if you want to "get it", read the book Driven to Distraction, then go to your doctor and be like "holy shit, i've had this my whole life and didn't know" and start going through some of the symptoms from the book.  maybe they'll give you the drugs without making you get tested, which is about $200 and isn't covered by insurance.

and while i see some on here think that the drugs don't help, if you don't have adhd, no they don't.  they hype you up and keep you awake.  however, i've noticed a significant difference in the way i conduct myself at work, and my wife has told me many times how much of a difference she sees, such as my ability to carry on a conversation without tuning her out and day-dreaming after the first sentence.

I don't know about your insurance and it seems you don't know much about anybody else's as mine covers the test without even a copayment.  My beat friend's covers with a $20 co-pay.  Most  reputable doctors will not write you a 'scrip without a diagnosis from a psych, unless you are under 18 or were previously diagnosed.  You are pretty accurate with the "how to" part.  One of the tests they give is just a simple "stare at the screen and press the button when you see this" type test.  Lasts about 15 minutes. It isn't hard to fuck up/fake but I would be careful not to over do it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 02, 2012, 12:36:28 AM
I have lower back pain is there something my doctor can give me for this? I dont want to exercise or stretch or eat or drink better i just want a pill that will make it not hurt soo much.
Thanks so much,
America
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 02, 2012, 12:38:33 AM
*:
you're born with it.  but if you want to "get it", read the book Driven to Distraction, then go to your doctor and be like "holy aMm, i've had this my whole life and didn't know" and start going through some of the symptoms from the book.  maybe they'll give you the drugs without making you get tested, which is about $200 and isn't covered by insurance.

and while i see some on here think that the drugs don't help, if you don't have adhd, no they don't.  they hype you up and keep you awake.  however, i've noticed a significant difference in the way i conduct myself at work, and my wife has told me many times how much of a difference she sees, such as my ability to carry on a conversation without tuning her out and day-dreaming after the first sentence.
If you feel comfortable with having an amphetamine addiction for the rest of your life instead of just being you, so be it. I would have started with some more homeopathic methods before i jumped into that boat.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Tusk till Dawn on March 02, 2012, 08:12:10 AM
I would have started with some more homeopathic methods before i jumped into that boat.

NTTAWWT
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogustus on March 02, 2012, 10:18:09 AM
If you feel comfortable with having an amphetamine addiction for the rest of your life instead of just being you, so be it. I would have started with some more homeopathic methods before i jumped into that boat.
Homoeopathic, lol.  Just put some sugar in water and drink it, it would be as effective.  I get it, you're against the medical establishment, but there's absolutely no scientific basis for homoeopathy.  It's just modern day snake oil.  Medicine, when done right, is based on sound scientific principals and has statistics to back it up.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: APhiOHog on March 02, 2012, 10:43:36 AM
Homoeopathic, lol.  Just put some sugar in water and drink it, it would be as effective.  I get it, you're against the medical establishment, but there's absolutely no scientific basis for homoeopathy.  It's just modern day snake oil.  Medicine, when done right, is based on sound scientific principals and has statistics to back it up.

Don't waste your time or effort here.  He's a lost cause.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 02, 2012, 11:14:47 AM
Homoeopathic, lol.  Just put some sugar in water and drink it, it would be as effective.  I get it, you're against the medical establishment, but there's absolutely no scientific basis for homoeopathy.  It's just modern day snake oil.  Medicine, when done right, is based on sound scientific principals and has statistics to back it up.
My homeopathic methods include eating healthy and exercise of mind and body. In todays world that is asking too much. Most people take the easy way out.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogustus on March 02, 2012, 11:53:56 AM
My homeopathic methods include eating healthy and exercise of mind and body. In todays world that is asking too much. Most people take the easy way out.
You keep using that word.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean what you think it means. 

Homeopathy is bullshit; healthy eating and exercise aren't.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Count Porkula on March 02, 2012, 01:53:17 PM
I have lower back pain is there something my doctor can give me for this? I dont want to exercise or stretch or eat or drink better i just want a pill that will make it not hurt soo much.
Thanks so much,
America

http://youtu.be/N6uEMOeDZsA
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Count Porkula on March 02, 2012, 01:55:02 PM
or if you prefer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 02, 2012, 04:47:23 PM
You keep using that word.  I'm pretty sure it doesn't mean what you think it means. 

Homeopathy is bullshit; healthy eating and exercise aren't.

Oh, so you agree with me? You just want to argue semantics...
I don't mind using a word incorrtectly and then being corrected as long as you agree with my principle thought.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Hogustus on March 02, 2012, 04:59:57 PM
Oh, so you agree with me? You just want to argue semantics...
I don't mind using a word incorrtectly and then being corrected as long as you agree with my principle thought.

I agree with you in that healthy diet and exercise are good for you, although in practice I don't do either well.  They are not a panacea. 

I believe in science, while you seem to believe in whatever sort of contrarian fad you've read last.  I've seen your anti-pharma and anti-medicine rants enough to know that you don't have anything to back them up but your gut feelings, so you apply your redneck logic to the situation. 

I'm not really arguing semantics, either - I'm saying you obviously don't understand what homeopathy is if you say healthy eating and exercise are homeopathic.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: cooter on March 02, 2012, 08:36:01 PM
Isn't homeopathy when they put a teency bit of shit in something and say it's going to cure aids?  I've seen meth cooks go to beans and grains because they heard they had homeopathic "red phospherous", not realizing there is more in a matchbox cover than 500 beans and grains.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 02, 2012, 11:46:11 PM
Life is good.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on March 02, 2012, 11:50:07 PM
If you feel comfortable with having an amphetamine addiction for the rest of your life instead of just being you, so be it. I would have started with some more homeopathic methods before i jumped into that boat.

The kind of amphetamine salts used in ADHD meds are non- addictive.  Big difference between the script meds and meth.  Kinda like the difference between chlorine and sodium-chloride.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on March 03, 2012, 03:23:27 AM
The kind of amphetamine salts used in ADHD meds are non- addictive.  Big difference between the script meds and meth.  Kinda like the difference between chlorine and sodium-chloride.

I know of about 3 or 4 cases that would serve as a direct counter-example to this statement.  I don't know a lot about the other ADD/ADHD meds, but the amphetamine salts in Adderall are addictive as hell.  I'm not arguing your right to be medicated in a particular way if you so wish.  But you can't possibly believe that Adderall isn't addictive.  If you believe that, you're probably being treated for the wrong kind of learning disability.  I've been on board with you for the most part in this thread, but this is pushing the limits of logic for me. 

I have no idea about Strattera and Vyvanse, but I would assume that since I never hear of anyone looking to buy a script of either off of anyone that they must not make you feel abnormally good.  Which would explain why they're not addictive.  I'm just saying that Adderall seems to me in my experience to be damn near as addictive as meth when readily available.  But bear in mind that the cases I'm referencing were all situations that started purely with recreational use.  Every single motherfucker I've ever known that was a legit ADD/ADHD sufferer absolutely hated taking meds for it.  So maybe Adderall isn't addictive to the people that actually need it, however, those people probably only comprise 10% or so of all the folks taking it.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on March 03, 2012, 06:51:55 AM
I know of about 3 or 4 cases that would serve as a direct counter-example to this statement.  I don't know a lot about the other ADD/ADHD meds, but the amphetamine salts in Adderall are addictive as hell.  I'm not arguing your right to be medicated in a particular way if you so wish.  But you can't possibly believe that Adderall isn't addictive.  If you believe that, you're probably being treated for the wrong kind of learning disability.  I've been on board with you for the most part in this thread, but this is pushing the limits of logic for me. 

I have no idea about Strattera and Vyvanse, but I would assume that since I never hear of anyone looking to buy a script of either off of anyone that they must not make you feel abnormally good.  Which would explain why they're not addictive.  I'm just saying that Adderall seems to me in my experience to be damn near as addictive as meth when readily available.  But bear in mind that the cases I'm referencing were all situations that started purely with recreational use.  Every single motherfucker I've ever known that was a legit ADD/ADHD sufferer absolutely hated taking meds for it.  So maybe Adderall isn't addictive to the people that actually need it, however, those people probably only comprise 10% or so of all the folks taking it.
Strattera isn't a stimulant. Vyvanse isn't "abusable" or so that is how it is marketed.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on March 03, 2012, 11:56:36 AM
I know of about 3 or 4 cases that would serve as a direct counter-example to this statement.  I don't know a lot about the other ADD/ADHD meds, but the amphetamine salts in Adderall are addictive as hell.  I'm not arguing your right to be medicated in a particular way if you so wish.  But you can't possibly believe that Adderall isn't addictive.  If you believe that, you're probably being treated for the wrong kind of learning disability.  I've been on board with you for the most part in this thread, but this is pushing the limits of logic for me. 

I have no idea about Strattera and Vyvanse, but I would assume that since I never hear of anyone looking to buy a script of either off of anyone that they must not make you feel abnormally good.  Which would explain why they're not addictive.  I'm just saying that Adderall seems to me in my experience to be damn near as addictive as meth when readily available.  But bear in mind that the cases I'm referencing were all situations that started purely with recreational use.  Every single motherfucker I've ever known that was a legit ADD/ADHD sufferer absolutely hated taking meds for it.  So maybe Adderall isn't addictive to the people that actually need it, however, those people probably only comprise 10% or so of all the folks taking it.

I hate taking it, but I know that it helps, which is why I do it.  If not for my wife begging me to, I never would have started taking them, or sought treatment from a doctor for ADHD.  Hell, I spent most of my life prior to 30 convincing myself and others that I didn't have ADHD, that the meds didn't do shit, that kids just needed their asses whipped more, etc.  I was more like sublizinme. 

As far as the meds and addiction; they doesn't erradicate the symptoms, but attention, focus, and impulsiveness are all noticeably better.  You have to do things to help yourself with ADHD; like make lists or set routines so that you don't forget things, knowing you will forget them if you don't.  And I mean simple things like putting on a belt or fixing your hair before you leave for work; you'd be surprised how something as simple as my shoes not being in the closet and I have to go look for them throws off my whole morning routine and I end up at work with no belt, or no phone, or no wallet.  It is a life that is frustrating as hell; you're smart enough to test in the 97th percentile on IQ tests in elementary school, graduate with a master's degree magna cum laude, and yet every time there is the slightest change to your routine you can't keep your thoughts organized well enough to remember to fix your fucking hair before you go to work.  And I don't mean you woke up late and your in a hurry, or hungover and just slipped your mind once last year and it was funny.  I mean it happens every single time your routine is thrown off, which can be a few times a week.

Needless to say, but I've forgotten my meds plenty of times in the morning after not having had a dose since about noon the day before and there are no side effects outside of attention and focus suffering a little and my coworkers being more annoyed with me than usual.  There are no cravings for the meds, headaches, inability to function normally, or any other behaviors that are caused by a lack of the drugs in your system, and the drugs have a half life of 6 hrs.  There is no adaptation to them, and by that I mean you don't have to increase the dosage over time to maintain the same effectiveness.  I have no question about being able to just stop taking the meds cold turkey, I don't because I believe they do help, and no it isn't all mental.  Doesn't sound like an addiction or dependency to me. 

Maybe its different for people that don't have ADHD.  Could be the people that take them recreationally like how they function on the drugs and don't want to quit taking them, who knows.  But in order for something to be an addiction, it has to affect more than one area of your life in a negative way, or have victims - directly or indirectly, you want to stop but can't, and you feel bad about whatever it is.  Adderall isn't like that in anyway. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Peanut Adams on March 03, 2012, 12:02:24 PM
The kind of amphetamine salts used in ADHD meds are non- addictive.  Big difference between the script meds and meth.  Kinda like the difference between chlorine and sodium-chloride.

wow. there is so much stupid in that post, i don't know where to begin.
the frightening part is that you take the stuff, but are completely unaware of what it is.
look it up. read a book. get a clue.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on March 03, 2012, 03:45:12 PM
The kind of amphetamine salts used in ADHD meds are non- addictive.  Big difference between the script meds and meth.  Kinda like the difference between chlorine and sodium-chloride.

since some of you can't read between the lines, let me clarify for you.  damn, I thought all woopigga's had half a brain and that's why your here and not on nobville.

when taken according to the prescribed regimen given to you by a doctor to treat ADHD, the amphetamine salts are not ingested in large enough doses in a short enough period of time to cause dependency or addiction.  if you down 100 mg or so a night for a few weeks straight, yeah, you can develop a dependency.  you guys might as well be arguing that drinking 4 or 5 1.5 oz shots of beer every night will cause alcoholism the same way downing the same amount of whiskey every night would.  methamphetamine is highly addictive in any quantity.

and the dependency you get from drastically abusing adderall results from the massive crash and sleepiness you have after your high and your need to take more to stay awake and not feel like shit.  other than being tired and feeling like shit until you get some rest and get it out of your system, you don't have withdrawals from detox.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 03, 2012, 06:09:13 PM
The kind of amphetamine salts used in ADHD meds are non- addictive.  Big difference between the script meds and meth.  Kinda like the difference between chlorine and sodium-chloride.
Are you being serious?

Schedule II
Substances in this schedule have a high potential for abuse which may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.

Examples of single entity schedule II narcotics include morphine and opium. Other schedule II narcotic substances and their common name brand products include: hydromorphone (Dilaudid®), methadone (Dolophine®), meperidine (Demerol®), oxycodone (OxyContin®), and fentanyl (Sublimaze® or Duragesic®).


Examples of schedule II stimulants include: amphetamine (Dexedrine®, Adderall®), methamphetamine (Desoxyn®), and methylphenidate (Ritalin®). Other schedule II substances include: cocaine, amobarbital, glutethimide, and pentobarbital.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/index.html#list

You probably have this literature at your house somewhere. However, i am not sure if you have ever read it:

http://pi.shirecontent.com/PI/PDFs/AdderallXR_USA_ENG.PDF

And just for propaganda sake :

http://www.adderall.net/

And why not. They lit there sounces pretty decently:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: BASS on March 03, 2012, 06:30:33 PM
Are you being serious?

Schedule II
Substances in this schedule have a high potential for abuse which may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence.

Examples of single entity schedule II narcotics include morphine and opium. Other schedule II narcotic substances and their common name brand products include: hydromorphone (Dilaudid®), methadone (Dolophine®), meperidine (Demerol®), oxycodone (OxyContin®), and fentanyl (Sublimaze® or Duragesic®).


Examples of schedule II stimulants include: amphetamine (Dexedrine®, Adderall®), methamphetamine (Desoxyn®), and methylphenidate (Ritalin®). Other schedule II substances include: cocaine, amobarbital, glutethimide, and pentobarbital.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/index.html#list

You probably have this literature at your house somewhere. However, i am not sure if you have ever read it:

http://pi.shirecontent.com/PI/PDFs/AdderallXR_USA_ENG.PDF

And just for propaganda sake :

http://www.adderall.net/

Not entirely serious with the non-addictive comment, but it is not near as bad as you, others, and the available literature want you to believe.

Abusing these drugs is bad and you may develop a dependency as a result, obviously all of the drugs you mentioned do not have the same addictiveness or same level of harmful affects.  For some other of my thoughts on that, read some of my more recent posts on this page.  Listing possible side effects is a bit of a red herring.

After taking adderall for a year and a half, I have never had a craving to take the next dose, nor a withdrawal symptom when I forget to take a dose.  Missing my morning cup of coffee has much worse consequences for me than not taking my meds.  I forget to take doses and have a daily reminder on my phone set to go off at 1:00 to help me not forget.  Any kind of dependency would suggest you don't need to be reminded to get your next fix. Does that sound like a highly addictive, habit forming, physically and psychologically dependent drug?  But, according to you and several others on here i've got an amphetamine addiction and apparently a screwed up person because I don't even realize it. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: MDEM on March 03, 2012, 08:02:36 PM
Not entirely serious with the non-addictive comment, but it is not near as bad as you, others, and the available literature want you to believe.

Abusing these drugs is bad and you may develop a dependency as a result, obviously all of the drugs you mentioned do not have the same addictiveness or same level of harmful affects.  For some other of my thoughts on that, read some of my more recent posts on this page.  Listing possible side effects is a bit of a red herring.

After taking adderall for a year and a half, I have never had a craving to take the next dose, nor a withdrawal symptom when I forget to take a dose.  Missing my morning cup of coffee has much worse consequences for me than not taking my meds.  I forget to take doses and have a daily reminder on my phone set to go off at 1:00 to help me not forget.  Any kind of dependency would suggest you don't need to be reminded to get your next fix. Does that sound like a highly addictive, habit forming, physically and psychologically dependent drug?  But, according to you and several others on here i've got an amphetamine addiction and apparently a screwed up person because I don't even realize it.

If it works for you, rock on.  Fuck these assholes.  It's your life.

You only have one person to answer to.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on March 03, 2012, 08:21:15 PM
If it works for you, rock on.  Fuck these assholes.  It's your life.

You only have one person to answer to.

This^^^^^^*^^
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 03, 2012, 10:15:22 PM

You only have one person to answer to.
His wife?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: subliznime on March 04, 2012, 01:40:38 AM
If it works for you, rock on.  frick these assholes.  It's your life.

You only have one person to answer to.
It took me talking to my friend tonight who is an organic chemistry teacher at a local college for me to realize anythIng more than this approach and im being preachy as the sons a bitches that hate the herbs.

To bass: i know one thing. No one can tell me what i can and cannot put in my body and you should feel the same . I am sorry I projected my plight on to you. Everything i stand for says that if you feeel you need to take or do whatever to make you happy as long as it doesnt harm others do it. The scorpio in me makes my passions for anything run crazy and then the ox year i was born makes me hard headed as a motherfucker. And in all truth thats how the oilfield west texas side of my family always was.  so, genetics is the most of it ;). Most of my issue is with giving these drugs to a non fully developed brain of a child. It also weirds me out that a 30 year old finds benefit from this drug. If you think it helps do it. It is your body. Some people around here think i smoke too much herb. I say Fuck em.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: littlerayofsunshine on March 04, 2012, 07:18:15 AM
BASS - Just so it's on the record, I'm all for you doing whatever the fuck you want to.  It was never my intent to critcize your use of the medication.  Hell, to this day I still wonder if I may very well need it myself.  I always did well in school.  College wasn't hard for me at all, but I started to show some extreme difficulty finishing tests within time limits during that time (I had the same problem in high school, but my teachers always allowed me the time I needed to finish).  In spite of that, I still graduated with honors.  After college I enrolled in law school, where the difficulties became more pronounced.  I had 4 hours to complete every final I had my first semester in law school and I didn't finish one of them.  The dean of students at the law school I attended was the first person to ever even make me consider the possibility that I might suffer from ADD.  He suggested I get tested, so I went to my family doctor and he set me up an appointment with a psychiatrist, and I showed up for testing at a clinic.  To begin with I was given an IQ test.  I was given a few tasks to complete.  Towards the end they gave me what I believe was the MMPI.  Like 400 simple questions.  I made it halfway through, made up an excuse that I had some shit to do and would come back the next day and finish it.  That was over 10 years ago.  And I never finished law school.  And I have no idea what the result of any of that testing was.

I've had 3 really close friends struggle with Adderall addiction in the past.  To a large degree, it is why I haven't pursued the issue any further with regard to my own situation.  I'm almost afraid they're gonna tell me I need it.  That being said, I can't deny that it may very well help me live in this world a little more efficiently.  You've definitely renewed my interest in getting to the bottom of the issue.  Thanks for that, regardless of whether we agree on the addictive nature of any relevant substances.   :beer:
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on March 04, 2012, 07:48:31 AM
As far as the meds and addiction; they doesn't erradicate the symptoms, but attention, focus, and impulsiveness are all noticeably better.  You have to do things to help yourself with ADHD; like make lists or set routines so that you don't forget things, knowing you will forget them if you don't.  And I mean simple things like putting on a belt or fixing your hair before you leave for work; you'd be surprised how something as simple as my shoes not being in the closet and I have to go look for them throws off my whole morning routine and I end up at work with no belt, or no phone, or no wallet.  It is a life that is frustrating as hell; you're smart enough to test in the 97th percentile on IQ tests in elementary school, graduate with a master's degree magna cum laude, and yet every time there is the slightest change to your routine you can't keep your thoughts organized well enough to remember to fix your fucking hair before you go to work.  And I don't mean you woke up late and your in a hurry, or hungover and just slipped your mind once last year and it was funny.  I mean it happens every single time your routine is thrown off, which can be a few times a week.


Sounds like a day in my life lol.  If I don't go through my routines in the mornings and evenings then shit gets all fucked up.  My wife has finally gotten to the point where she no longer moves my daily life stuff when she cleans (wallet, watch, keys, lighter, hat, etc).  I got out of routine one morning looking for my boots, and wound up leaving the house without my wallet, watch, bike key-fob and house keys.  Luckily I stopped for gas and figured it out when I couldn't open the gas cover, and of course, was stuck since I didn't have my fob and couldn't re-start the bike.  Had to have the wife bring me my stuff.  It's also really difficult to explain this particular issue to people... they just don't get it.  I did move my second fob out of the garage so now I can't even start the bike without having it in my pocket.  Which has saved me from this same situation several times now (3 this week alone).  It's really weird hearing someone else deal with that same thing.  If my routine is off just a bit, I forget my stuff, or I walk around all day trying to remember what I feel like I forgot.  Same goes for in the evening when I get home.  I have to immediately go to my office and deposit my stuff in it's proper location so that I don't forget to, and wind up leaving it somewhere else.  I've even gotten to the point where I get ready in the morning in the exact same order every day.

I do still struggle with remembering to make to-do lists and set reminders.  Which makes me look like a huge procrastinator since I end up forgetting to do stuff until it's too late and have to put it off until the next day... rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: cooter on March 04, 2012, 10:19:55 AM
Sounds like a day in my life lol.  If I don't go through my routines in the mornings and evenings then shit gets all fucked up.  My wife has finally gotten to the point where she no longer moves my daily life stuff when she cleans (wallet, watch, keys, lighter, hat, etc).  I got out of routine one morning looking for my boots, and wound up leaving the house without my wallet, watch, bike key-fob and house keys.  Luckily I stopped for gas and figured it out when I couldn't open the gas cover, and of course, was stuck since I didn't have my fob and couldn't re-start the bike.  Had to have the wife bring me my stuff.  It's also really difficult to explain this particular issue to people... they just don't get it.  I did move my second fob out of the garage so now I can't even start the bike without having it in my pocket.  Which has saved me from this same situation several times now (3 this week alone).  It's really weird hearing someone else deal with that same thing.  If my routine is off just a bit, I forget my stuff, or I walk around all day trying to remember what I feel like I forgot.  Same goes for in the evening when I get home.  I have to immediately go to my office and deposit my stuff in it's proper location so that I don't forget to, and wind up leaving it somewhere else.  I've even gotten to the point where I get ready in the morning in the exact same order every day.

I do still struggle with remembering to make to-do lists and set reminders.  Which makes me look like a huge procrastinator since I end up forgetting to do stuff until it's too late and have to put it off until the next day... rinse and repeat.

Dude, this is the kindler gentler woopig so I'm not judging.  Sounds more like obsessive/compulsive than ADHD though.  It's very common and I don't think ritalin is going to help you.  I'm an even numbers guy myself.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Passed on March 04, 2012, 11:36:18 AM
Dude, this is the kindler gentler woopig so I'm not judging.  Sounds more like obsessive/compulsive than ADHD though.  It's very common and I don't think ritalin is going to help you.  I'm an even numbers guy myself.

I think you misunderstood me.  There is no compulsion involved.  My routines are simply something created, by me, to ensure that I don't forget my daily essential items.  It's a trick that a shrink taught me when I was a kid...  And then further reinforced by my time in the Corps.  No compulsion what-so-ever.  Just a habit that I consciously created so that I wouldn't forget my stuff when I get distracted in the mornings, or if something goes awry. 
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: notaslibro on March 04, 2012, 02:34:15 PM
Before I will let any physician prescribe a medication for me, I ask his zodiac sign and factor in precession to determine his true astrological bent.  Because if there's one thing that concerns me about a grown man who has been through 20-30 years of school, it's what month he was born.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: ocelot_ark on March 05, 2012, 10:47:16 AM
Who the fuck turned this into a discussion about ADHD?  There's long paragraphs, links, graphs, blah, blah.  Let's get back on topic.   O0
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: The Reverend Snoophogg on March 05, 2012, 08:36:50 PM
Who the fuck turned this into a discussion about ADHD?  There's long paragraphs, links, graphs, blah, blah.  Let's get back on topic.   O0


This

Is

WOOPIG!


You know shit gets derailed here more than the Bangladeshi Railroad.
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: cooter on March 06, 2012, 12:04:28 AM
Who the fuck turned this into a discussion about ADHD?  There's long paragraphs, links, graphs, blah, blah.  Let's get back on topic.   O0

Probably the ones with ADHD. Wouldn't you think?
Title: Re: DEA Raids TCU
Post by: Death By Sooiecide on March 08, 2012, 11:46:54 AM
Right.  It's TCU, not Baylor
This is Baylor

(http://30fps.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2012-March-8-12-39-3.jpg)