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Author Topic: A date which will live in infamy  (Read 16488 times)

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Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #175 on: December 07, 2017, 05:34:17 PM »
I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but damn that's pretty blinded to facts. I guess they could have starved considering we were in the process of cutting off ALL of their oil.

The oil embargo wasn't complete and was in addition to others such as scrap metal and copper which were hard on them as well. 

The flaw in your logic is that we didn't start with the embargo, the embargo was in response to egregious action the Japanese took to dominate Asia including occupying much of China and Southeast Asia and refusal to remove themselves from the Tripartite treaty with Germany and Italy, including taking the lands belonging to France via the Vichy puppet state.  That's why negotiations with the U.S. were failing, the ones they pulled out of slightly before Pearl Harbor occurred. 

Blaming America for that embargo is some serious revisionism given the context it took place in.

Offline Lurk

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #176 on: December 07, 2017, 08:51:24 PM »
The oil embargo wasn't complete and was in addition to others such as scrap metal and copper which were hard on them as well. 

The flaw in your logic is that we didn't start with the embargo, the embargo was in response to egregious action the Japanese took to dominate Asia including occupying much of China and Southeast Asia and refusal to remove themselves from the Tripartite treaty with Germany and Italy, including taking the lands belonging to France via the Vichy puppet state.  That's why negotiations with the U.S. were failing, the ones they pulled out of slightly before Pearl Harbor occurred. 

Blaming America for that embargo is some serious revisionism given the context it took place in.
Oh bullshit. Read some of Roosevelt’s history or the history of the code breakers. Roosevelt and Churchill were dying to get the US in the war against overwhelming public opinion against it. They goaded Japan into it so they could get involved in Europe.

Edit to add. We were one of the countries that freaking partitioned China, so stop acting like we were just minding our own business over there.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 08:55:17 PM by Lurk »
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Offline HogTat

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #177 on: December 07, 2017, 09:04:25 PM »
Well, this could be lively.  Looking forward to differing opinions!
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Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #178 on: December 07, 2017, 09:07:44 PM »
Oh bullshit. Read some of Roosevelt’s history or the history of the code breakers. Roosevelt and Churchill were dying to get the US in the war against overwhelming public opinion against it. They goaded Japan into it so they could get involved in Europe.

Edit to add. We were one of the countries that freaking partitioned China, so stop acting like we were just minding our own business over there.

You are right, we are the guilty ones for picking on poor, innocent Japan. 

We had interests over there, colonies and allies.  They didn't want trade, they didn't want peace, they wanted to dominate the Pacific.
The better argument against us goes back to the way the Allies treated Japan at the end of WWI, where the opportunity for a Japan working with the major countries in the West still existed but wasn't allowed to occur, in part because of racism and arrogance.

Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #179 on: December 07, 2017, 09:08:17 PM »
Well, this could be lively.  Looking forward to differing opinions!

It's refreshing that today, unlike the P&R, he's not taking his propaganda from the Russians.

Offline HogTat

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #180 on: December 07, 2017, 09:16:43 PM »
It's refreshing that today, unlike the P&R, he's not taking his propaganda from the Russians.

I don't do P&R.
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Offline Lurk

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #181 on: December 07, 2017, 10:02:44 PM »
It's refreshing that today, unlike the P&R, he's not taking his propaganda from the Russians.
I take what you call propaganda from reading probably over a hundred biographies and books on WWII, so fuck off. You don't have your lapdog Muzzie to come back you up any more, so you're on your own now. Let's see how you do.
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Offline TexZilla

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #182 on: December 07, 2017, 10:43:27 PM »
Oh bullshit. Read some of Roosevelt’s history or the history of the code breakers. Roosevelt and Churchill were dying to get the US in the war against overwhelming public opinion against it. They goaded Japan into it so they could get involved in Europe.

Edit to add. We were one of the countries that freaking partitioned China, so stop acting like we were just minding our own business over there.

You might have read a lot but you seem to have missed quite a bit of interwar Asian history, in particular the actions of Imperial Japan.  You've also seemed to read a lot of revisionist conspiracist history that doesn't hold up to the truth; its not much different than holocaust deniers and 911 truthers. Churchill certainly wanted the US in the war, but against Germany.  It paid neither to goad Japan into a full fledged war.  Had the carriers been sunk at Pearl Harbor it is quite likely the Japanese would have moved quickly through all of southeast Asia and then threatened to take India and/or Australia.

Read up on the Marco Polo Bridge, the Panay Incident, and the Rape of Nanking all perpetrated by Japan in 1937 in starting war against the independent Republic of China, not the British, French, or American colonial holdings.  This was a barbaric regime that brutalized its part of the world; they deserved everything that fell upon them.

Offline Lurk

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #183 on: December 07, 2017, 10:52:26 PM »
You might have read a lot but you seem to have missed quite a bit of interwar Asian history, in particular the actions of Imperial Japan.  You've also seemed to read a lot of revisionist conspiracist history that doesn't hold up to the truth; its not much different than holocaust deniers and 911 truthers. Churchill certainly wanted the US in the war, but against Germany.  It paid neither to goad Japan into a full fledged war.  Had the carriers been sunk at Pearl Harbor it is quite likely the Japanese would have moved quickly through all of southeast Asia and then threatened to take India and/or Australia.

Read up on the Marco Polo Bridge, the Panay Incident, and the Rape of Nanking all perpetrated by Japan in 1937 in starting war against the independent Republic of China, not the British, French, or American colonial holdings.  This was a barbaric regime that brutalized its part of the world; they deserved everything that fell upon them.
No, they were part of the countries that partitioned China along with us and the Europeans. They abused their section, not the" independent Republic of China".  I'm not defending the Japanese for anything they did. But to act  like we didn't know that the embargo would cause war is just being a sheep. If you want to measure dicks on who has read more on it we can do it in another thread.
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Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #184 on: December 07, 2017, 11:02:16 PM »
I take what you call propaganda from reading probably over a hundred biographies and books on WWII, so fuck off. You don't have your lapdog Muzzie to come back you up any more, so you're on your own now. Let's see how you do.

Having read more doesn't compensate for aptitude, so not sure your unit measuring proposition is measuring the right "unit".

Offline Lurk

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #185 on: December 07, 2017, 11:09:13 PM »
Having read more doesn't compensate for aptitude, so not sure your unit measuring proposition is measuring the right "unit".
I’ll take reading over not reading every day. You should try it some time.
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Offline DRYANKNPULL

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #186 on: December 07, 2017, 11:13:02 PM »
I’ll take reading over not reading every day. You should try it some time.

Quit being an inflammatory cunt. Start a p&r thread.

Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #187 on: December 07, 2017, 11:19:59 PM »
I’ll take reading over not reading every day. You should try it some time.

OK. 

Says the guy that gets his news from...



Hypocrite.

Offline Boondoggle

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Re: A date which will live in infamy
« Reply #188 on: December 08, 2017, 02:26:38 AM »
"A date which will live in infamy..."?

I thought you were talking about the results of the "Big Shootout" in '69 where the all-Texass refs basically stole 7 points off the Arkansas scoreboard and handed then over to Texass.
Good Ol' Arkansas Football: a Long, LONG way from relevance -- Manifest Cluster Fuckage.

 

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