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Online TexZilla

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NFL Rules
« on: January 03, 2012, 08:42:45 AM »
As we enter the playoffs, a new rule comes in regarding overtime.

To refresh your memory, if the receiving team in OT scores a TD, game over.  If only a FG, game continues.  I hate this rule because it introduces uncertainty in execution.  I dont want to see a coach making a huge decision here based on a computer card indicating what to do.  To me a rule must be the same in regular season and the playoffs, which the networks would reject for making games too long.

If the rule was enacted because they wanted to reduce the effectiveness of kickers ending games, why not do what they have done in the past.  Change the target by fricking with the goalposts and kicking points.  Take the goalposts and raise the bottom bar by two feet, and then stick a top post across it, ending the verticals to infinity.  If the math folks deem that as not enough. put in a new set of hash marks for place kicks over by the numbers to add some angle.  (keep the regular hash marks for normal plays where they be)

this one drives me nuts because its so obviouisly a bad rule.  any others you be hatin' on?

Offline TUSK_U

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 08:56:28 AM »
I just wish they would have the same rules for college and NFL.  Was watching sport science yesterday about the kickers and they explained that the hash marks were even different between the two. Why the Starkville is that?

Offline ArkGuy

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 09:12:09 AM »
It's part of a 40 year assault on defenses.  The NFL kept moving them in and in and in because they thought plays beginning way over on a far hash made the field easier to defend.  At one time they proposed just using a hash down the middle for all plays but stopped short of that.

I think the college rule is better than either the old or new pro rule.  They could adopt that, except start on the 40 or something challenging.  Everyone would get at least one possession, which seems to be a fundlemental flaw of the NFL system..
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Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 10:11:45 AM »
It's part of a 40 year assault on defenses.  The NFL kept moving them in and in and in because they thought plays beginning way over on a far hash made the field easier to defend.  At one time they proposed just using a hash down the middle for all plays but stopped short of that.

I think the college rule is better than either the old or new pro rule.  They could adopt that, except start on the 40 or something challenging.  Everyone would get at least one possession, which seems to be a fundlemental flaw of the NFL system..


Before they killed off NFL Europe, the NFL used that league to experiment with new rules, one of which was a modified overtime.  In NFL Europe OT, each team was guaranteed one possession (regardless of how you scored), and then if the game was still tied after each team had a possession, it became sudden death.

Other than just playing out an entire extra quarter, this seemed like the fairest way to have overtime in football.  Of course, it wasn't what the NFL wound up adopting.
 

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Offline HogofWar

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 10:18:52 AM »

Before they killed off NFL Europe, the NFL used that league to experiment with new rules, one of which was a modified overtime.  In NFL Europe OT, each team was guaranteed one possession (regardless of how you scored), and then if the game was still tied after each team had a possession, it became sudden death.

Other than just playing out an entire extra quarter, this seemed like the fairest way to have overtime in football.  Of course, it wasn't what the NFL wound up adopting.

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Offline CharlieHog

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 10:59:02 AM »
I don't think the NFL and college need to have all the same rules. College athletes are much less skilled and athletic overall and the rules should reflect that (for example: only need 1 foot down to be in-bounds in college football).

However, the college overtime is perfect and should be used in the NFL, except that the possession should start back a little further.

Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 11:01:51 AM »
I don't think the NFL and college need to have all the same rules. College athletes are much less skilled and athletic overall and the rules should reflect that (for example: only need 1 foot down to be in-bounds in college football).

However, the college overtime is perfect and should be used in the NFL, except that the possession should start back a little further.


While at one time I felt differently, I've come around to the idea that someone should have to be downed by contact (NFL rule) rather than down because the field happens to have slippery turf and you slip to a knee while making a catch or making a cut. 

I agree with your assessment of the college OT starting too close.  That said, I'd rather see a game format OT where both teams are a guaranteed a possession prior to it becoming sudden death than the current college system. 
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Offline LashHog

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 11:11:31 AM »
Is that really the OT rule? I thought the playoff OT rule was that if the first team to get possession scored, the other team got one shot to score. But if the first team failed to score and the next team scored, the game was over. Basically ensuring each team gets at least one possession.
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Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 11:15:52 AM »
Is that really the OT rule? I thought the playoff OT rule was that if the first team to get possession scored, the other team got one shot to score. But if the first team failed to score and the next team scored, the game was over. Basically ensuring each team gets at least one possession.


Nope, a TD on the opening possession wins the game.

NFL Postseason overtime rules
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Offline LashHog

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2012, 11:22:57 AM »

Nope, a TD on the opening possession wins the game.

NFL Postseason overtime rules
Hmm, I don't know where I got that. Maybe just wishful thinking, I like my idea a lot better than that one.
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Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2012, 11:27:50 AM »
Hmm, I don't know where I got that. Maybe just wishful thinking, I like my idea a lot better than that one.


Your idea was the model they used in NFL Europe and that I prefer.

Somehow, it got bastardized into the new OT format.
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Offline Phat_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2012, 11:28:07 AM »
As we enter the playoffs, a new rule comes in regarding overtime.

To refresh your memory, if the receiving team in OT scores a TD, game over.  If only a FG, game continues.  I hate this rule because it introduces uncertainty in execution.  I dont want to see a coach making a huge decision here based on a computer card indicating what to do.  To me a rule must be the same in regular season and the playoffs, which the networks would reject for making games too long.


It's the "Favre" rule.  It came about after the NFC Championship game when Favre was at Minnesota where the game went to OT (after a Favre interception of course) and the Saints won the coin flip and went straight down the field and kicked a FG to win.  At that time Favre was still a media darling so there was much butthurt over the fact that Favre didn't get the opportunity to bring his team back for the win and make it to the Super Bowl thus cheating the media out of the gigantic Favre orgy it would've become.
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Offline ArkGuy

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2012, 01:27:37 PM »
The NFL-Europe version described by Law Hawg seems more fair than either the "regular" sudden death or the "play-off" sudden death.

To me, it's hard to think of a major sport where a pure sudden death would be a fair way to decide a game.  Soccer and hockey come closest since each team will likely have multiple posessions before one scores.  It MIGHT have been different in the old NFL before all the pro-passing rules changes and the advent of highly efficient offenses.

Nobody would dream of stopping a baseball game in the top of the 10th just because one team had scored, even if they won a coin toss to see who would bat first.

Actually, now that the NFL has seen the light and adopted the two-point conversion, in the regular season they should go back to having ties, i.e. no OT.  Coaches would never go for that, though.
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Online TexZilla

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2012, 10:01:57 PM »
The NFL is not going to go back to ties because fans wouldn't accept it.  Same reason college wont either.  We spent too many years to get OT in both.  Nothing sucks like a tie.

My point on this rule is that it only exists in the playoffs; Imo rules should be the same in season and playoffs.  Until recently I was fine with sudden death, believing  the game is made of three phases, but with the rules changes to drive scoring too much advantage goes to the coin flip.

When this passed, an owner defended it by complaining about the range and accuracy of kickers.  Easy to fix, and with precedent, as goal posts have gone from goal line to rEcessed center posts to the end line.  Raising the crossbar two feet or so would shorten the range of a kicker by a factor of ?. 




Offline bigghurtt

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2012, 10:43:17 PM »
While at one time I felt differently, I've come around to the idea that someone should have to be downed by contact (NFL rule) rather than down because the field happens to have slippery turf and you slip to a knee while making a catch or making a cut. 

I'm the total opposite.  If there were only one rule I could change in the NFL to college-style, it would be the downed-by-contact thing.  If you're on the ground, you're down in football, imho. 

The rule the NFL uses that I would like to see college adapt would probably be the "not molesting children" thing.

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Offline BigDavis

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2012, 10:48:24 PM »
I would like to see the NFL change what is considered a "reviewable" call. If a player makes a catch and gets both feet down but it's called incomplete on the field. You just have to eat a aMm sandwich because they won't review it. frick that aMm. Between that and every decent hit getting a flag. It's enough to make me stop watching.

Offline gambler

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2012, 11:04:37 PM »
I'd like to see the rule where a player catches a ball while in the air and pushed out of bounds ruled incomplete changed.

Offline Hardpork

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2012, 11:35:10 PM »
I'd like to see all this 'start the game clock back up when a player runs out of bounds' bullshit stop.  This belongs in the NFL but not in college.   

I would also like to see a lot of these media timeouts cut out of the college game.

Get rid of OT in college.   It's stupid, boring, and anti-climatic.  Football is not meant to be played by the inning.

Offline notaslibro

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2012, 12:26:05 AM »
Nobody would dream of stopping a baseball game in the top of the 10th just because one team had scored, even if they won a coin toss to see who would bat first.

Sure, but in baseball, the team throwing the ball is the defense.  Should we change the rules to make that part match as well?


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Offline Hognarok

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2012, 08:26:20 AM »
I think they should make the hashmarks in the NFL the same distance apart as they are in the NCAA.  I never understood why they made it easier for professional kickers than for college kickers.

Offline Law_Hawg

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2012, 09:11:37 AM »
I'd like to see the rule where a player catches a ball while in the air and pushed out of bounds ruled incomplete changed.


You want a return to the force-out rule?

Nobody liked that rule, which is why the NFL got rid of it three years ago.
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Offline HogInHornLand

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2012, 09:27:36 AM »
I would like to see the NFL change what is considered a "reviewable" call. If a player makes a catch and gets both feet down but it's called incomplete on the field.

This. I just wish I understood what is vs. isn't a reviewable call in the first place. I thought I understood...until the DJ fumble call was overturned in the LSU game. Yeah, I know this thread is about NFL rules.

I agree with you about the pass completion rules as well...it is just too complicated. Frankly, I think it should be enough that the ball doesn't hit the ground. None of this "well, he caught the ball, got both feet down in-bounds, but as he was falling out of bounds, the ball moved a little bit in his hands = incomplete pass" crap.
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Offline BigDavis

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2012, 09:30:37 AM »
This. I just wish I understood what is vs. isn't a reviewable call in the first place. I thought I understood...until the DJ fumble call was overturned in the LSU game. Yeah, I know this thread is about NFL rules.

I agree with you about the pass completion rules as well...it is just too complicated. Frankly, I think it should be enough that the ball doesn't hit the ground. None of this "well, he caught the ball, got both feet down in-bounds, but as he was falling out of bounds, the ball moved a little bit in his hands = incomplete pass" crap.

The one that bothers me the most is if it's called a catch on the field they can review it... but if it's called incomplete on the field you're fricked. How is that fair? I don't give a frick about Detroit or Green Bay but that was fricked up.

Offline Snorts

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2012, 09:39:04 AM »
I think they should make the hashmarks in the NFL the same distance apart as they are in the NCAA.  I never understood why they made it easier for professional kickers than for college kickers.

And the College Hash marks are closer than the HS.  Those divide the field into thirds. 

Colleges used to be like that, I dont remember when they got moved in.  At the time, everyone said it would help the option game, that there would be enough room to run it short side.  In HS, there are a lot of plays you cant run worth a crap short side, and defenses take great advantage of this.
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Offline LashHog

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Re: NFL Rules
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
The one that bothers me the most is if it's called a catch on the field they can review it... but if it's called incomplete on the field you're fricked. How is that fair? I don't give a frick about Detroit or Green Bay but that was fricked up.
I don't think that's quite right. I think it's just that any scoring play is automatically reviewed, but a non-scoring play is left to the discretion of the officials. It's not that a play call an incompletion can't be reviewed, it just isn't automatic like a TD is.

But you're right, they ought to tweak that to find some definition where the a play that the only other result would have been scoring is also reviewed.
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