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Offline Das Uberschwein

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #575 on: February 03, 2012, 10:05:50 PM »
As much as I'd have liked to see Diamond land here, I think we should let that $Auburn$ stuff go, now. No reason to think that they paid this kid to commit, and even less reason (from what admittedly little we know about the kid and his mom) that they would even have been a party to that kind of thing. Was there shady stuff going on with Cecil Newton? Sure sounded like it. But, that doesn't mean that that's the typical process with Auburn - and certainly less reason to think that that was the case here. Suggesting otherwise everytime we miss out on a recruit to Auburn just sounds like sour grapes.

I remember last season, when we and Nebraska were competing for Mitchell, and all 'husker fans could talk about on their message board was how we must be paying him to come here and/or hooking his mom up with some cushy fabricated job. None of this was substantiated, because none of it was true. No reason to believe that anything shady went on with our recruitment of Mitchell; no reason to believe that anything shady went on with their recruitment of Diamond. Let's not allow ourselves to fall to the level of those folks who say x program must be paying their players each time we lose out on a recruit.

Just my two cents on it.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 10:22:35 PM by Das Uberschwein »

Offline EastArkHog

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #576 on: February 03, 2012, 10:18:46 PM »
As much as I'd have liked to see Diamond land here, I think we should let that $Auburn$ stuff go, now. No reason to think that they paid this kid to commit, and even less reason (from what admittedly little we know about the kid and his mom) that they would even have been a party to that kind of thing. Was there shady stuff going on with Cecil Newton? Sure sounded like it. But, that doesn't mean that that's the typical process with Auburn - and certainly less reason to think that that was the cae here. Suggesting otherwise everytime we miss out on a recruit to Auburn just sounds like sour grapes.

I remember last season, when we and Nebraska were competing for Mitchell, and all 'husker fans could talk about on their message board was how we must be paying him to come here and/or hooking his mom up with some cushy fabricated job. None of this was substantiated, because none of it was true. No reason to believe that anything shady went on with our recruitment of Mitchell; no reason to believe that anything shady went on with their recruitment of Diamond. Let's not allow ourselves to fall to the level of those folks who say x program must be paying their players each time we lose out on a recruit.

Just my two cents on it.

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Offline Das Uberschwein

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #577 on: February 03, 2012, 10:21:23 PM »
So play nice with our rivals...gotcha, I'll blow them kisses next time

Not exactly what I was getting at.

Offline hogsrunwild

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #578 on: February 04, 2012, 05:40:04 AM »
As much as I'd have liked to see Diamond land here, I think we should let that $Auburn$ stuff go, now. No reason to think that they paid this kid to commit, and even less reason (from what admittedly little we know about the kid and his mom) that they would even have been a party to that kind of thing. Was there shady stuff going on with Cecil Newton? Sure sounded like it. But, that doesn't mean that that's the typical process with Auburn - and certainly less reason to think that that was the case here. Suggesting otherwise everytime we miss out on a recruit to Auburn just sounds like sour grapes.

I remember last season, when we and Nebraska were competing for Mitchell, and all 'husker fans could talk about on their message board was how we must be paying him to come here and/or hooking his mom up with some cushy fabricated job. None of this was substantiated, because none of it was true. No reason to believe that anything shady went on with our recruitment of Mitchell; no reason to believe that anything shady went on with their recruitment of Diamond. Let's not allow ourselves to fall to the level of those folks who say x program must be paying their players each time we lose out on a recruit.

Just my two cents on it.

I think the difference between those situations is that neither us, nor Nebraska have been found to be paying recruits recently, as far as I know.  Auburn looked pretty fricking guilty last year and if a JC QB is worth 180k, before doing aMm, you have to wonder how much a 5* player would be worth.  Also, we wouldn't have heard aMm about Cam getting paid if he didn't turn out to be all-world. 

Auburn doesn't have a good track record of NOT cheating.  Guilty until proven innocent with those fuckers.
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Offline Gin

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #579 on: February 04, 2012, 09:39:11 AM »
As much as I'd have liked to see Diamond land here, I think we should let that $Auburn$ stuff go, now. No reason to think that they paid this kid to commit, and even less reason (from what admittedly little we know about the kid and his mom) that they would even have been a party to that kind of thing. Was there shady stuff going on with Cecil Newton? Sure sounded like it. But, that doesn't mean that that's the typical process with Auburn - and certainly less reason to think that that was the case here. Suggesting otherwise everytime we miss out on a recruit to Auburn just sounds like sour grapes.

I remember last season, when we and Nebraska were competing for Mitchell, and all 'husker fans could talk about on their message board was how we must be paying him to come here and/or hooking his mom up with some cushy fabricated job. None of this was substantiated, because none of it was true. No reason to believe that anything shady went on with our recruitment of Mitchell; no reason to believe that anything shady went on with their recruitment of Diamond. Let's not allow ourselves to fall to the level of those folks who say x program must be paying their players each time we lose out on a recruit.

Just my two cents on it.
Ok dood!  Tommy Tuberville was high successful at Auburn and never ever recruited anywhere close to Chizik, Troopa, Curtis, and Gus.  You dont go 5-19 and come in and recruit back to back to back to back classes like they have done.  Auburn is payin and wont stop until they are forced to.

Offline BASS

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #580 on: February 04, 2012, 09:49:06 AM »
everybody needs to pull their heads out of their asses.  any school worth a aMm in college football or basketball cheats constantly on some level regarding their players/recruits and they've been doing it for 50 years.  most schools/coaches/boosters do a fine job of keeping it under wraps.  the NCAA knows this goes on but without obvious evidence like a rogue booster going ape aMm becaues someone in the program made him angry like that nevin shapiro guy, or an investigative reporter releasing a story, or another team turning them in, they keep their heads in the sand. 

remember the 80's when 7 of the 9 swc football programs were all on probation or worse at the same time?  the ncaa didn't do aMm for investigations until another swc school turned one in and gave them all of the info.  that school got mad and turned in the dirt they had on another school.  it started with texas turning in smu because they were butthurt over losing to the pony excess, smu got pissed and turned in a&m, a&m got pissed and turned in texas, etc.  arkansas and rice were the only schools not in trouble, but if you believe that is because neither were cheating you're a gullible dumbass.  they were just better at keeping a lid on it and none of the other schools had enough info to do any damage.

the difference in cheating between schools is the resources available and the risks they are willing to take.  there is a reason some schools/coaches get caught over and over and others never do; some know the limits and not to push them, and some don't; others just have more control over their boosters and who has access, etc. than others.  bobby lowder, pat dye, and auburn have been nailed before and there has been trails of smoke coming from that program for decades.  calipari got two basketball programs in trouble, but something tells me he's not going to get kentucky in trouble, not because he isn't cheating, probably much more so than at memphis and umass, but the people helping him cheat are much better at it than his supporting cast at memphis and umass. 

outside of track with tyson gay, arkansas hasn't been in any kind of trouble with the ncaa since the ted harrod thing, and neither of those would have been discovered if not for someone pissed off at the booster/coach/school flapping their gums.

Offline Rob

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #581 on: February 04, 2012, 09:52:14 AM »

We need guys like Cobi, Bailey, Brey Cook, Knile, Tyler, Swanson, DD Jones, etc.. to start going high in the draft and we need to sneak up and win an SEC title.

PERIOD.  Then when we have that trophy.  We will start landing some of these guys.  That's your SEC closer.

In our SEC history we don't really have it.

UT has a long history of 1st rounders, an SEC and NC title.
Auburn has it.
UGA has it
LSU has it
Bama has it
Florida has

Teams like us, we will pull the stud from time to time but never the class full until that changes.  Until then we rely on the kick ass staff of evaluators we have and the system that in 4 years has us right there.  Better than all those programs other than Bama and LSU and the other schools have out recruited us every year.  And you know what, we still beat them.  We are deeper than we have ever been.  We are better coached than we have ever been.  I hate that we did not land any of the studs.  But we have to trust a system that has taken us this far in a short time.  It is not like his system is suddenly going to stop working and go backwards.  It can only get better.  Trust the system.

Offline Death By Sooiecide

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #582 on: February 04, 2012, 10:05:42 AM »
So about that booster voicemail...

Offline BoarlissWilliamson

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #583 on: February 04, 2012, 10:09:17 AM »
We need guys like Cobi, Bailey, Brey Cook, Knile, Tyler, Swanson, DD Jones, etc.. to start going high in the draft and we need to sneak up and win an SEC title.

PERIOD.  Then when we have that trophy.  We will start landing some of these guys.  That's your SEC closer.

In our SEC history we don't really have it.

UT has a long history of 1st rounders, an SEC and NC title.
Auburn has it.
UGA has it
LSU has it
Bama has it
Florida has

Teams like us, we will pull the stud from time to time but never the class full until that changes.  Until then we rely on the kick ass staff of evaluators we have and the system that in 4 years has us right there.  Better than all those programs other than Bama and LSU and the other schools have out recruited us every year.  And you know what, we still beat them.  We are deeper than we have ever been.  We are better coached than we have ever been.  I hate that we did not land any of the studs.  But we have to trust a system that has taken us this far in a short time.  It is not like his system is suddenly going to stop working and go backwards.  It can only get better.  Trust the system.

I don't understand why people think this.  Otha Peters was an All American LB and rated the #6 LB in the country.  If Otha Peters, Darius Philon, Austin Flynn, Eric Hawkins, Nate Holmes, and most of the other guys we signed are not studs, then I don't know what recruit is a stud. 

If Davonte Neal doesn't sign with us (and he probably won't), it'll be nice to have a extra scholarship next year after we win the National Championship.   :helmet:

Offline Rob

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #584 on: February 04, 2012, 10:16:29 AM »
I don't understand why people think this.  Otha Peters was an All American LB and rated the #6 LB in the country.  If Otha Peters, Darius Philon, Austin Flynn, Eric Hawkins, Nate Holmes, and most of the other guys we signed are not studs, then I don't know what recruit is a stud. 

If Davonte Neal doesn't sign with us (and he probably won't), it'll be nice to have a extra scholarship next year after we win the National Championship.   :helmet:
Not saying they are not.  I am talking about lining us a class of 4/5* (more than 2 or 3 per class).  I believe we have great evaluators of talent. We land a few first rounders (Childs and Knile would have been that for us this year w/o injuries) and we close better and better.  You are nuts if you don't think BP wanted these guys.  If he can mold Hoots left overs into what he did and mix in his recruits.  We will be rolling if we landed Neal, DGB, Diamond, etc...  I am thrilled with what we have. Just making a point.

Offline Death By Sooiecide

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #585 on: February 04, 2012, 10:25:37 AM »
I don't understand why people think this.  Otha Peters was an All American LB and rated the #6 LB in the country.  If Otha Peters, Darius Philon, Austin Flynn, Eric Hawkins, Nate Holmes, and most of the other guys we signed are not studs, then I don't know what recruit is a stud. 

If Davonte Neal doesn't sign with us (and he probably won't), it'll be nice to have a extra scholarship next year after we win the National Championship
.   :helmet:
You can have all the extra scholarships you want but only sign 25. Thanks Houston Nutt. 

The caveat to that is we could sign someone at midterm a la Austin Flynn.

Offline BoarlissWilliamson

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #586 on: February 04, 2012, 10:39:58 AM »
Not saying they are not.  I am talking about lining us a class of 4/5* (more than 2 or 3 per class).  I believe we have great evaluators of talent. We land a few first rounders (Childs and Knile would have been that for us this year w/o injuries) and we close better and better.  You are nuts if you don't think BP wanted these guys.  If he can mold Hoots left overs into what he did and mix in his recruits.  We will be rolling if we landed Neal, DGB, Diamond, etc...  I am thrilled with what we have. Just making a point.
???

Who else did we miss on signing day onward other than DGB, and Diamond? 

So you're saying Coach Petrino didn't want any of these guys? 

Have you watched their videos?  Have you read their measurables?

Eric Hawkins is the fastest 100 meter runner we have ever signed for football that I am aware of (he's faster than Batman, Ronnie Wingo, and he's faster than Wallace Spearmon was in high school).  As a junior in high school Eric ran a 10.32 100 meters.  He will be one Starkville of an athlete for us.

Nate Holmes is 6' 1" 180lb athlete (running back) that runs a 4.4 40.

Etc, etc...

http://www.arpreps.com/signingday/

« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 10:51:07 AM by BoarlissWilliamson »

Offline BASS

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #587 on: February 04, 2012, 11:09:02 AM »
why recruiting rankings suck, and in the end are as useful as tits on a bull.

a player's ranking by espn/rivals/scout/24-7/joe bob's razorback underground recrootin newsletter is dependent on a few things completely unrelated to how good of a college football player they will be.

Recrootnik's ratings based on
1. who the slap dicks writing articles take the time to put the cheetos down, peel their legs off their momma's naugahyde vinyl couch in the basement, and actually evaluate and watch video of.
2. what their senior season stats are.
3. how good of a highschool player they are against their highschool competition.
4. height/size/shape/strength/speed
5. who offers them a scholarship
6. the # of sucker fans that will buy subscriptions that follow the schools that offer them scholarships

are the recrootnik's right a lot?  sure.  big, fast, strong kids that are stud hs players project to continuing being a stud, in time, against their peers they are currently studs over.  are they wrong alot?  much more so than they are right.

why are they wrong so much?  very few kids are the caliber of football player as a senior in high school that is needed to be a solid backup in college, let alone a starter or significant contributor.  there are many other factors that affect the recruits future potential that coaches should be looking at:

What else matters that recrootniks ignore
1. work ethic - do they work hard?  will they work hard in college or flame out because they are no longer the most athletically gifted person on the field?
2. has the kid peaked?  has he already fully physically matured?  does he have the potential to grow more, pack on muscle, etc.?  if the motherfricker looks 30, he's already as good as he's ever gonna be, which is probably equivalent to a serviceable backup or mediocre starter.
3. are they mentally mature and not go ape aMm the minute they move outta momma's house?  numerous top ranked recruits that never make the team due to grades or get kicked off before they ever significantly contribute due to arrests/character issues.
4. are they intelligent enough to grasp the complex schemes/plays/assignments of college football?  (does not apply to hooten dale recroots or positions like dt)
5. how good is the coaching staff at developing players physically and teaching them to become great football players?

there is a little bit of overlap; #'s 3 and 4 from the recrootnik's ratings list are used by coaches to get their list of top 20 or 30 prospects at each position, then they whittle them down from there with criteria recrootniks ignore.  only 2 of the recrootnik's rating criteria are worth a aMm to college programs, while 5 of the program's most important criteria aren't even considered by recrootniks.

recrootniks sell recruiting as though it is like it is in ea sports ncaa football 2012.  dude is given numbers for each attribute which emperically makes him a better player than others, players go to college and compete wtih said attributes, attributes increase a little bit each year, the best recruiting classes year after year = the most talented teams year after year and most talented teams win.

does recruting matter?  yes.  does it suck losing out on highly regarded recruits?  yes.  does that mean that a recruiting class will suck 2 or 3 years down the road?  no.  does having highly ranked classes regularly translate to being an elite program?  no.  notre dame, texas, florida, florida state, miami, and auburn can all attest to this the last couple of years...and next year for that matter.

I don't think petrino's strategy is to go after kids that are great high school football players.  I think he believes he can teach a recruit all they will ever need to know to become a great college football player, and therefore looks for athletically gifted kids with bodies that can be molded and are intelligent enough/mature enough to learn what he's teaching.  BMFP doesn't win by recruting great football players, he wins by creating great football players. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 11:14:58 AM by combsj »

Offline McCarroll21

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #588 on: February 04, 2012, 12:37:24 PM »
You can have all the extra scholarships you want but only sign 25. Thanks Houston Nutt. 

The caveat to that is we could sign someone at midterm a la Austin Flynn.
If we signed one at mid-term, he could count back (Jalen Cobb, maybe?) and then we could sign 26. That's assuming we stay at 24.

Remember we also signed guys like Stringer and Atiga in May last year.

Offline jsimp

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #589 on: February 04, 2012, 12:41:46 PM »
maybe fayetteville ain't what we think it is for 18-24 year old males

Offline Razordoc

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #590 on: February 04, 2012, 12:42:10 PM »
So about that booster voicemail...

No proof, of course, but I suspect that was left by a lol miz fan/booster in an attempt to incriminate us.  Don't forget the mommafricker who kept tweeting our recruits.  He turned out to be a tigger fan if memory serves me right.
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Offline Clark

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #591 on: February 04, 2012, 12:43:53 PM »
Demetrius Wilson. I'm going to keep repeating this.

Also: lose the catfish hole. Find something else.
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Offline Death By Sooiecide

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #592 on: February 04, 2012, 01:49:59 PM »
@NWAVernon: Fayetteville senior WR Scotty Thurman, Jr. plans to walk on in fball at Arkansas. Yes. He's THAT Scotty Thurman Jr.

Offline Hackfuck McDouche

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #593 on: February 04, 2012, 02:13:40 PM »
@NWAVernon: Fayetteville senior WR Scotty Thurman, Jr. plans to walk on in fball at Arkansas. Yes. He's THAT Scotty Thurman Jr.

The appropriate thing for an SEC team to do now is to let Toby Bailey's son to walk-on at DB.

I KID, I KID

Offline Das Uberschwein

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #594 on: February 04, 2012, 02:51:56 PM »
I think the difference between those situations is that neither us, nor Nebraska have been found to be paying recruits recently, as far as I know.  Auburn looked pretty fricking guilty last year and if a JC QB is worth 180k, before doing aMm, you have to wonder how much a 5* player would be worth.  Also, we wouldn't have heard aMm about Cam getting paid if he didn't turn out to be all-world. 

Auburn doesn't have a good track record of NOT cheating.  Guilty until proven innocent with those fuckers.

True. In the case of Diamond, though, I just don't think there's good reason to speculate about that kind of thing.

Offline Das Uberschwein

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #595 on: February 04, 2012, 02:53:55 PM »
Ok dood!  Tommy Tuberville was high successful at Auburn and never ever recruited anywhere close to Chizik, Troopa, Curtis, and Gus.  You dont go 5-19 and come in and recruit back to back to back to back classes like they have done.  Auburn is payin and wont stop until they are forced to.

Isn't it possible that, in many cases of recruitment, it's just that for whatever reason the recruits and parents gravitate towards the coaches and the program? Couldn't it be - in most cases, not all - that they're just good at recruiting, for whatever reason?

Offline Das Uberschwein

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #596 on: February 04, 2012, 02:56:26 PM »
Demetrius Wilson. I'm going to keep repeating this.

Also: lose the catfish hole. Find something else.

Yep. Any kid that BMFP lights up about the way he did when talking about Wilson is going to be the real deal.

Offline Old Dirty Boarstard

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #597 on: February 04, 2012, 04:42:37 PM »
@NWAVernon: Fayetteville senior WR Scotty Thurman, Jr. plans to walk on in fball at Arkansas. Yes. He's THAT Scotty Thurman Jr.

Sucks that kid isn't the shooter Scotty was. We could use him.



Offline wolowitz

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #598 on: February 04, 2012, 04:56:08 PM »

Also: lose the catfish hole. Find something else.


This.
I can't imagine just how gay tulsahog and his ilk at the catfish hole seem to high school boys.
Get rid of that aMm.
Auburn can cover up 180k and we fire a guy for 20k....Auburn NC, Hogs Weedwacker Bowl bound.

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Offline Tampa TechnoHOG

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Re: Official 2012 Recruiting Class Thread
« Reply #599 on: February 04, 2012, 05:04:31 PM »
Isn't it possible that, in many cases of recruitment, it's just that for whatever reason the recruits and parents gravitate towards the coaches and the program? Couldn't it be - in most cases, not all - that they're just good at recruiting, for whatever reason?

I'm not even sure some of these schools are good at recruiting.  Kids that go out of state I think tend to focus more on what the perception of the program is.  We tend to look at our program through homer glasses, so of course some of us don't understand why an out of state kid doesn't pick us.  2 seasons of double digit wins has turned some 4-5 star heads to glance our way, but I think it's going to take at least 2 more continued seasons of ending with double digit wins for us to reap the recruiting 4-5 star rewards that we are feeling we should land.

Prior to our last 2 seasons, what does anyone think the national perception of our program was?  I think that's what Petrino has been fighting against when it comes to  recruiting.  He's slowly but surely changing minds, and thank goodness he knows how to evaluate and coach kids up while those minds are changing.
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