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Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #50 on: February 08, 2012, 09:13:22 PM »
Lots of University of Northwest Arkansas sentiment in here, taking a DC politics style approach to the rhetoric.

1) Tailgating ain't near what it is in LR. I love to tailgate in Fayetteville, got a great spot, and it's come a long ways....but let's be real. Rolling into the pit two hours before kickoff and trying not to run over the other late arriving tailgaters in the mass of pedestrians around player walk through ain't getting it done.

2) The ignorant aMm about WMS being a dump doesn't do anything, other than prove that you haven't been anywhere else other than RRS. Other than its size, WMS is pretty much exactly like most other major stadiums around this country. Most stadiums are huge concrete and steel structures designed to house 80,000 people for 3 hours....with nice areas for 5-10,000 fans to primp and act like they care about football as they play grabass.

3) Bama '10 was a special atmosphere. So was Auburn '11. Above and beyond what you could get in WMS. But that's not the point. The vast majority of the LR crowd has conceded those big games. Give LR two games, including a decent non-con like Tulsa, and let them expand the stadium and people will be happy. Fayetteville gets all the big games, and all the conference games, and doesn't have <60,000 people for a mid-November cupcake in poor weather. 

4) Giving away a home game to Dallas, now against someone most likely along the lines of Texas Tech, while pulling games from the city that supported the university for over 60 years ain't gonna fly. THAT will piss some people off.

5) And here is the most important point. We are as successful and strong as a program since when we won the national title in the '60's. That's great, and I never thought I'd see it during the Nutt years. But, I still looked up with a top 10 team playing an SEC game against a name opponent (Tennessee), and saw full empty sections in the corners of the upper deck. We had ONE game that was chock full this year -- Auburn. There were all kinds of seats for the non-con games.

And that's when we are in the top 10 in the strongest conference in the country with a coach that is treated like a god and the most exciting product on the field anywhere in college football. What happens when we have a down year? And we are 6-6, and we have 48,000 people in that big stadium for a game against LA-Monroe? And then 56,000 the next week for Vandy?

That's when you're going to need the LR games -- not now, not at the zenith of our program in the last 40 years.



All that said....none of this stuff will come down to what you or I post on a message board or really even football. This will play out at the highest levels of state politics, and if WMS is willing to add some more suites and 5,000 or so more seats, I fully expect there to be a completely reasonable compromise met. One that includes all conference games in Fayetteville, and two non-con games in LR with one being the Tulsa, Memphis, etc. of the group.

Offline Ty Webb

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #51 on: February 08, 2012, 09:26:40 PM »
Lots of University of Northwest Arkansas sentiment in here, taking a DC politics style approach to the rhetoric.

1) Tailgating ain't near what it is in LR. I love to tailgate in Fayetteville, got a great spot, and it's come a long ways....but let's be real. Rolling into the pit two hours before kickoff and trying not to run over the other late arriving tailgaters in the mass of pedestrians around player walk through ain't getting it done.

2) The ignorant aMm about WMS being a dump doesn't do anything, other than prove that you haven't been anywhere else other than RRS. Other than its size, WMS is pretty much exactly like most other major stadiums around this country. Most stadiums are huge concrete and steel structures designed to house 80,000 people for 3 hours....with nice areas for 5-10,000 fans to primp and act like they care about football as they play grabass.

3) Bama '10 was a special atmosphere. So was Auburn '11. Above and beyond what you could get in WMS. But that's not the point. The vast majority of the LR crowd has conceded those big games. Give LR two games, including a decent non-con like Tulsa, and let them expand the stadium and people will be happy. Fayetteville gets all the big games, and all the conference games, and doesn't have <60,000 people for a mid-November cupcake in poor weather. 

4) Giving away a home game to Dallas, now against someone most likely along the lines of Texas Tech, while pulling games from the city that supported the university for over 60 years ain't gonna fly. THAT will piss some people off.

5) And here is the most important point. We are as successful and strong as a program since when we won the national title in the '60's. That's great, and I never thought I'd see it during the Hootie years. But, I still looked up with a top 10 team playing an SEC game against a name opponent (Tennessee), and saw full empty sections in the corners of the upper deck. We had ONE game that was chock full this year -- Auburn. There were all kinds of seats for the non-con games.

And that's when we are in the top 10 in the strongest conference in the country with a coach that is treated like a god and the most exciting product on the field anywhere in college football. What happens when we have a down year? And we are 6-6, and we have 48,000 people in that big stadium for a game against LA-Monroe? And then 56,000 the next week for Vandy?

That's when you're going to need the LR games -- not now, not at the zenith of our program in the last 40 years
.



All that said....none of this stuff will come down to what you or I post on a message board or really even football. This will play out at the highest levels of state politics, and if WMS is willing to add some more suites and 5,000 or so more seats, I fully expect there to be a completely reasonable compromise met. One that includes all conference games in Fayetteville, and two non-con games in LR with one being the Tulsa, Memphis, etc. of the group.
Well said. I agree.
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Offline HipHog

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #52 on: February 08, 2012, 09:51:24 PM »
Lots of University of Northwest Arkansas sentiment in here, taking a DC politics style approach to the rhetoric.

1) Tailgating ain't near what it is in LR. I love to tailgate in Fayetteville, got a great spot, and it's come a long ways....but let's be real. Rolling into the pit two hours before kickoff and trying not to run over the other late arriving tailgaters in the mass of pedestrians around player walk through ain't getting it done.

2) The ignorant aMm about WMS being a dump doesn't do anything, other than prove that you haven't been anywhere else other than RRS. Other than its size, WMS is pretty much exactly like most other major stadiums around this country. Most stadiums are huge concrete and steel structures designed to house 80,000 people for 3 hours....with nice areas for 5-10,000 fans to primp and act like they care about football as they play grabass.

3) Bama '10 was a special atmosphere. So was Auburn '11. Above and beyond what you could get in WMS. But that's not the point. The vast majority of the LR crowd has conceded those big games. Give LR two games, including a decent non-con like Tulsa, and let them expand the stadium and people will be happy. Fayetteville gets all the big games, and all the conference games, and doesn't have <60,000 people for a mid-November cupcake in poor weather. 

4) Giving away a home game to Dallas, now against someone most likely along the lines of Texas Tech, while pulling games from the city that supported the university for over 60 years ain't gonna fly. THAT will piss some people off.

5) And here is the most important point. We are as successful and strong as a program since when we won the national title in the '60's. That's great, and I never thought I'd see it during the Hootie years. But, I still looked up with a top 10 team playing an SEC game against a name opponent (Tennessee), and saw full empty sections in the corners of the upper deck. We had ONE game that was chock full this year -- Auburn. There were all kinds of seats for the non-con games.

And that's when we are in the top 10 in the strongest conference in the country with a coach that is treated like a god and the most exciting product on the field anywhere in college football. What happens when we have a down year? And we are 6-6, and we have 48,000 people in that big stadium for a game against LA-Monroe? And then 56,000 the next week for Vandy?

That's when you're going to need the LR games -- not now, not at the zenith of our program in the last 40 years.



All that said....none of this stuff will come down to what you or I post on a message board or really even football. This will play out at the highest levels of state politics, and if WMS is willing to add some more suites and 5,000 or so more seats, I fully expect there to be a completely reasonable compromise met. One that includes all conference games in Fayetteville, and two non-con games in LR with one being the Tulsa, Memphis, etc. of the group.
this is what i would say if i was intelligent. thanks
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Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #53 on: February 08, 2012, 09:52:53 PM »
We were 5-7 four years ago.  We never had "48k people" in the home stadium in Fayetteville.

Exaggerate and bullshit, because thats the only way the status quo makes sense.

WMS is the second worst stadium in the SEC.  Starkville, by some standards it is the worst. 

Some people cling to that and think that is fine for our program.  Others don't.

LSU fans are tres gauche.

Offline Pumpkin Escobar

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2012, 09:56:47 PM »
frick Arkansas State.  We owe them nothing.  Arkansas fans should not be asked to contribute a fricking penny to their program.


Damn straight. We don't gain aMm by playing them and if I want a rivalry, it damn sure won't be with some shitass Sunbelt team.
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Offline DRYANKNPULL

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2012, 10:05:47 PM »
I have not missed a game in WMS since 1979.  I think it is a great atmosphere.  We have been very successful there, and the fans can be amazing and loud.  Great game day experience.  I live 20 minutes from the stadium, which makes it very convenient to go to the games.

It's time to play all of them in Fayetteville.  It only makes sense to do so. It's time.

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2012, 10:09:01 PM »
U
We were 5-7 four years ago.  We never had "48k people" in the home stadium in Fayetteville.

Exaggerate and bullshit, because thats the only way the status quo makes sense.


WMS is the second worst stadium in the SEC.  Starkville, by some standards it is the worst. 

Some people cling to that and think that is fine for our program.  Others don't.

Hard to take criticisms about exaggerating seriously in the context of your posts about LR games.

And no, of course there wasnt 47000 people in Petrino's first year. Although I seem to remember barely 35k in their seats at kickoff for fricking homeco ming 5 (or was it 6 years ago?). We wont always have BMFP, unfortunately.

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2012, 10:22:36 PM »
Hard to take criticisms about exaggerating seriously in the context of your posts about LR games.

And no, of course there wasnt 47000 people in Petrino's first year. Although I seem to remember barely 35k in their seats at kickoff for fricking homeco ming 5 (or was it 6 years ago?). We wont always have BMFP, unfortunately.

Really?  What part of my post was exaggeration?  I've been to every Fayetteville game the last 6 seasons.  Every single game there over that time period has had a crowd that exceeded the maximum crowd at WMS.

LSU fans are tres gauche.

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2012, 10:40:57 PM »
Really?  What part of my post was exaggeration?  I've been to every Fayetteville game the last 6 seasons.  Every single game there over that time period has had a crowd that exceeded the maximum crowd at WMS.

Your posts in general, equating WMS to the worst stadium in the SEC and "rusty car blocks." Not only is that not true, it's funny you are so blinded by your hatred of LR that you gripe because the stadium is shitty but you also gripe because the commission wants to improve it. It's obvious you believe NWA is the center of the world, so I'm not sure why I'm even banging my head against the wall in this thread. But, whatever...

Anyway, your confidence in Fayetteville attendance is kind of perplexing; I'll forgo the debate over specific numbers because I don't care to do the research, and those numbers are wild assed guesses at best. I do know that we had a top 10 matchup in Fayetteville this year against South Carolina and didn't sell it out. We had a homecoming game within the last 5 or 6 years that might have had 40,000 people at it, and was so embarrassing that Stepford Fans created a story of a post-apocolyptic pile up at the bobby hopper tunnel to explain it. When we are in the top 5, like this year, is not the issue (despite the non-sellout w/ a top 10 matchup and average attendance at best against non-cons). When god forbid Petrino decides he wants to play golf or take on a new challenge, and we hire the ghost of Tommy Bowden is when it will be an issue. You can pretend that we will be good forever, but we won't. No one, absolutely no one is.

I also take umbrage at your attitude that just because people still want to see games in LR means they are stuck in the 60's. Nothing could be further than the truth. There was a time when Fayetteville couldn't even have a game at night or have nearly as many people as LR could, so we played more games in LR than we did in Fayetteville. Things change, and now we are down to 2 games in LR and looks like we will be down to 2 cupcakes in the near future. That said, that jewell of a stadium and that SEC program wouldn't exist without the support from Central Arkansas and LR games over the years.

And it will hurt the program in the long-term if we pull games totally out of LR, and the University as well. I find it interesting that we don't spend a dime on in-state advertising. A large portion of that is due to our sports teams presence in LR, and the media pep rally and exposure we get everytime a team goes down there. It's good for everyone, and most rational people I talk to, even one's born and raised in NWA, will digress and acknowledge the fact that there is nothing wrong with giving LR 2 non-con games a year, as long as LSU and Bama are in Fayetteville.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 10:51:21 PM by Denny Crane »

Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2012, 10:49:42 PM »
Its real simple.  I don't have nearly as much emotion tied into the debate as you seem to have.

I don't "hate" Little Rock.  That you perceive that I hate LR, or take issue with my pointing out simple facts, is about you.

The fact remains that WMS is smaller than all but one SEC venue.  It has no amenities that make it nicer than 13 other venues.  In short, its the worst or second worst venue in the SEC any way you slice it.  Most objective observers come to the same conclusion.  Pointing out reality does not equal "hatred".

It takes some real creativity to justify continuing playing in WMS, when we have RRS on campus.  When RRS is expanded again, it will become even more absurd.

Emotion aside, I just don't see a compelling case for it. 

It requires exaggeration and emotion to make any case for playing in WMS. 
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Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 10:59:59 PM »
Its real simple.  I don't have nearly as much emotion tied into the debate as you seem to have.

I don't "hate" Little Rock.  That you perceive that I hate LR, or take issue with my pointing out simple facts, is about you.

The fact remains that WMS is smaller than all but one SEC venue.  It has no amenities that make it nicer than 13 other venues.  In short, its the worst or second worst venue in the SEC any way you slice it.  Most objective observers come to the same conclusion.  Pointing out reality does not equal "hatred".

It takes some real creativity to justify continuing playing in WMS, when we have RRS on campus.  When RRS is expanded again, it will become even more absurd.

Emotion aside, I just don't see a compelling case for it. 

It requires exaggeration and emotion to make any case for playing in WMS.

Funny, I'm the emotional one yet you are the one that firebombs Little Rock and WMS:

Some people like games in Little Rock.

Some people are also not embarrassed by having a rusty car on blocks in their front yard for five years.


As far as the venue, I doubt you've been to all the SEC stadiums. I've a shitty job that has put me in various cities all over the south, and the only benefit of said shitty job is getting to go to abunch of football games.

Newsflash: WMS is the exact same as 90% of stadiums out there, albeit a smaller. Now, if more seats always equal better, then I guess RRS is way down the list of SEC stadiums. I'm not saying WMS is a palace. But it looks and feels just like nearly every stadium I've been in, again, excepting its size. It's clear that most people that call it a dump have only been to two venues in their entire life, both in this state. Criticize it for its size, but the dump talk is ignorant. Really the only word.


And the compelling case for LR games is the fact that I don't want to see a fragmented state in 30 years all because we didn't want to give away two games that most people in this area of the state would yawn over, probably skip the tailgate if the weather wasn't perfect, and stay for the first half of a blowout? Versus having 100,000 people tailgating and a frothy fanbase desperate to see the Razorbacks? While we are giving away a game to Dallas? I don't see the compelling case for not farming out two shitty games to LR every year.

It's worked for 60 years, and has allowed our program to punch above its weight when we have the right coaches in place. Emotion aside (that makes me the mature one if I say that, right?).

Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 11:11:00 PM »
A few thoughts on this thread:

I grew up in LR and my grandfather went to Hog games at Quigley back in the 20s, when Little Rock HS could get more fans at Quigley than UA could in Fayetteville. I went to a ton of SWC games in the 80s and kept going to games through college, med school and afterwards.  When I was in HS I parked cars at WMS as Catholic's JROTC program did this to raise money.  I have always been a biased pro-LR, pro-WMS guy.

Now I live in Dallas and make it to about 5 home games a year plus the one here (and our bowls the last two years).  I drive about 5 hours either way, driving to LR is a little easier.

Pre-expansion in 2001 WMS >>> RS and it wasn't even close.  It was louder, more fun, more a true stadium instead of just stands, etc and the tailgating was awesome.

When we expanded RRS 72K seemed like too much, but it wasn't.  We filled it up pretty well, despite the fact we weren't consistently good.  Fayetteville has always been in a backward far corner of the state and couldn't lure fans.  It impeded our program and is a big reason we couldn't become a Bama, Nebraska or Georgia where the campus was better accessible to the state's population.  Little Rock games outdrew those in Fayetteville until a decade ago.  NWA is obviously very different now but the big difference was first I-40 and especially since then I-540.  Now you can safely drive home at night, and if you want to stay in a hotel you can actually find one.  It's really just not that hard to get there anymore.  Sure there are people in far flung rural corners of the state that struggle to get there, but there are also hordes driving up from Texas and Memphis that don't seem to mind.  Distance and seclusion just aren't really a factor anymore.

Whoever said tailgating was better at RRS is loco.  We have some of the worst tailgating I've seen on any campus, largely due to the layout of the area.  The Gardens are contrived, and people are just kind of randomly scattered in various lots.  There are a plethora of paved lots and a parking deck where you can't really tailgate.  In the end does tailgating really matter that much?  No, it's not a primary endpoint.  But tailgating is what I will miss most about WMS.

The atmosphere at RRS passed WMS with the 2010 Bama game IMO.  Until then I'd always thought the RRS crowd was usually dull and disinterested.  A combination of national relevance, an excited student body, piped in music and orchestrated fan chants, and the loud PA system seems to have made RRS just a whole lot better.  The crappy TV and PA system at WMS seem to keep the crowd more detached from the game than I used to remember now.  Both are loud, but I really think the 2010 Bama game and 2011 Auburn and SC games were louder than any I've ever been to.

The bottom line will be dollars and cents.  Jeff Long is working with a budget of $72 million when our rivals have $100-110 million.  Answer the Call helped but we simply can't compete if we don't stop giving away money we don't have to.  The difference between 5 homes games and 7 homes games at RRS is a tremendous amount of revenue, especially with new premium seating in the NEZ at RRS.  Long has handled the fanbase in LR quite well, spending lots of time in LR, making sure baseball and basketball are played there and we have the NSD signing deal down there.  He will do everything in his power to keep LR involved. I read a complaint about playing in Dallas, but that's a half home game, and it nets us $8 mil+ over 2 years, which is more than we net in 2-3 years playing two games at WMS.  Petrino may only be here a limited time, but this is our opportunity to catapult ourselves back to a top 10 program so we can replace him with a Holtz instead of a Nutt. We have to get our financial house and facilities in order.

Little Rock doesn't have a rival program within 2 1/2 hours.  Do people really think Ole Miss fans will start taking over Little Rock just because we no longer play at WMS? Come on, now.  The LR media market represents half of the state by itself, well over a million people.  When the games are moved Long will do everything in his power to do it with class and respect.  It's because of LR's special history with the Hogs and loyalty and support to UA that we are still playing games years after everyone else gave it up.  Everyone needs to respect that, and just understand it's a business decision that has to be made for our program to stay competitive.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 11:13:33 PM »
LR should get 1 crappy rent-a-win per year.  It'll be a gift.  AT MOST.  And said game should never be a "home" game for Arkansas.

Recruiting.  Not being able to host the occasional recruit for a visit during a certain weekend because we're playing in LR is pretty fricking retarded.  That's really all that should be said about it if we're truly serious about winning a NC.

Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 11:14:28 PM »
You took my rusty car analogy as a direct slam on you or the city of Little Rock. 

It was really just about two things that don't make any real sense, but some people insist on doing anyway.

WMS is not as nice as VHS.  WMS is not as nice as Scott Field or whatever they are calling State's stadium these days.

Is the difference huge?  Not really, but WMS is still inferior. 

Look what you are doing.  You're justifying Arkansas playing in the SEC's second-shittiest stadium because its "not that much worse" than a couple of the worst stadiums in the SEC.  That's a pretty fricking low bar, and if there's emotion for me in the debate at all, its that some of our fanbase has such low fricking standards that being the worst "but not by much" is ok for them.  That's the rusty car analogy. 

The "Well that'll do, it ain't that bad" horseshit, because its more convenient for you and you're too fricking lazy to be bothered with progress or taking pride in the program. 





 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 11:19:41 PM by wmr »
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Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2012, 11:32:20 PM »
Whoever said tailgating was better at RRS is loco. 

Maybe as a part of the transition, Long needs to take, say $2 million of the first year's revenue increase, work with the University to knock down all of that shitty, University-owned housing behind the UAPD and north of the Tennis Center and let people tailgate back there for a decade or so.  I've always thought they should terrace that hillside NE across Stadium Drive below the administration building so people could tailgate there, too.  Tailgating improvements should be considered as a part of the switch when it happens.
LSU fans are tres gauche.

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2012, 12:39:28 AM »
You guys are frickin' crazy.

I love me some WMS.

I've never seen a Razorback game there, but I did watch my 4th grade daughter's soccer championship there.
OK, it was my daughter, I just like to watch the 4th graders play soccer, but that's beside the point.
The reality is the stadium is all that, and for a big college game, probably twice or even three times as fun.

There are some things that we could do to make it better.
First, drop some red turf, and then issue special black uniforms to the the team, all black, including the helmet.
All the old timers would love that chit.
Also, bring back those Corky's BBQ Nachos, the ones with the red jalapenos.

Online Hogtired

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2012, 06:29:46 AM »
Lots of University of Northwest Arkansas sentiment in here, taking a DC politics style approach to the rhetoric.

1) Tailgating ain't near what it is in LR. I love to tailgate in Fayetteville, got a great spot, and it's come a long ways....but let's be real. Rolling into the pit two hours before kickoff and trying not to run over the other late arriving tailgaters in the mass of pedestrians around player walk through ain't getting it done.

2) The ignorant aMm about WMS being a dump doesn't do anything, other than prove that you haven't been anywhere else other than RRS. Other than its size, WMS is pretty much exactly like most other major stadiums around this country. Most stadiums are huge concrete and steel structures designed to house 80,000 people for 3 hours....with nice areas for 5-10,000 fans to primp and act like they care about football as they play grabass.

3) Bama '10 was a special atmosphere. So was Auburn '11. Above and beyond what you could get in WMS. But that's not the point. The vast majority of the LR crowd has conceded those big games. Give LR two games, including a decent non-con like Tulsa, and let them expand the stadium and people will be happy. Fayetteville gets all the big games, and all the conference games, and doesn't have <60,000 people for a mid-November cupcake in poor weather. 

4) Giving away a home game to Dallas, now against someone most likely along the lines of Texas Tech, while pulling games from the city that supported the university for over 60 years ain't gonna fly. THAT will piss some people off.

5) And here is the most important point. We are as successful and strong as a program since when we won the national title in the '60's. That's great, and I never thought I'd see it during the Hootie years. But, I still looked up with a top 10 team playing an SEC game against a name opponent (Tennessee), and saw full empty sections in the corners of the upper deck. We had ONE game that was chock full this year -- Auburn. There were all kinds of seats for the non-con games.

And that's when we are in the top 10 in the strongest conference in the country with a coach that is treated like a god and the most exciting product on the field anywhere in college football. What happens when we have a down year? And we are 6-6, and we have 48,000 people in that big stadium for a game against LA-Monroe? And then 56,000 the next week for Vandy?

That's when you're going to need the LR games -- not now, not at the zenith of our program in the last 40 years.



All that said....none of this stuff will come down to what you or I post on a message board or really even football. This will play out at the highest levels of state politics, and if WMS is willing to add some more suites and 5,000 or so more seats, I fully expect there to be a completely reasonable compromise met. One that includes all conference games in Fayetteville, and two non-con games in LR with one being the Tulsa, Memphis, etc. of the group.

I completely agree.
AYFSM?

Offline hogfan58

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2012, 07:01:41 AM »
Funny, I'm the emotional one yet you are the one that firebombs Little Rock and WMS:


As far as the venue, I doubt you've been to all the SEC stadiums. I've a shitty job that has put me in various cities all over the south, and the only benefit of said shitty job is getting to go to abunch of football games.

Newsflash: WMS is the exact same as 90% of stadiums out there, albeit a smaller.



I've been to every stadium in the SEC at least once and WMS is at or near the bottom. The 2 Mississippi stadiums have been dressed up, but are still dumps. UK's is drap and nothing special, but nicer. USCe is much bigger and sits in the middle of a field, but again, nothing special. All the others are head and shoulders nicer and better.

As far as atmosphere, the problem with RRS vs WMS is 2-fold...(1) the on-campus drinking restriction. This is HUGE. While there is obviously still drinking going on, the campus cops do crack down on this and it does effect the rowdiness in the stadium. No one can argue that tailgating scene (aka drinking) is far better in LR, which translates to the better atmosphere at WMS. Which leads to (2) the argument of 76,000 vs 55,000. This is a revenue discussion, which RRS wins. Because in the atmosphere discussion, you have to subtract all the people sitting behind glass that add NOTHING to it. You can't hear them, the team can't hear them. Add in that RRS isn't enclosed (yet) and that is why all the WMS folks go on and on about WMS being louder with less people...well, it really isn't.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 07:08:24 AM by hogfan58 »
I'm asking you as fans, don't give up on those players, don't give up on us, it's our program, it's the state of Alabama program...it's not one individuals program, so hang in there...

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2012, 07:17:58 AM »



I've been to every stadium in the SEC at least once and WMS is at or near the bottom. The 2 Mississippi stadiums have been dressed up, but are still dumps. UK's is drap and nothing special, but nicer. USCe is much bigger and sits in the middle of a field, but again, nothing special. All the others are head and shoulders nicer and better.

As far as atmosphere, the problem with RRS vs WMS is 2-fold...(1) the on-campus drinking restriction. This is HUGE. While there is obviously still drinking going on, the campus cops do crack down on this and it does effect the rowdiness in the stadium. No one can argue that tailgating scene (aka drinking) is far better in LR, which translates to the better atmosphere at WMS. Which leads to (2) the argument of 76,000 vs 55,000. This is a revenue discussion, which RRS wins. Because in the atmosphere discussion, you have to subtract all the people sitting behind glass that add NOTHING to it. You can't hear them, the team can't hear them. Add in that RRS isn't enclosed (yet) and that is why all the WMS folks go on and on about WMS being louder with less people...well, it really isn't.

Neyland is shittier than WMS, but much bigger. Tiger Stadium might be this shittiest stadium in the nation, it's bad. Vandy is beyond pathetic. Vaught has high school bleachers in one end zone and is not much bigger. Davis Wade, although I hear they've made some improvements, is worse. Used to be much worse. A&M's stadium is covered in bat aMm and I thought I was going to get staph just walking through the place. Athens is nice, but their concourses are so small you can't get to the bathroom in less than 25 minutes.

The point isn't that WMS is some kind of palace, the point is that the hyperbole that WMS is somehow the worst stadium in the country is aggravating and ignorant. It's small and doesn't have enough luxury seating. Bang on it for that. But other than that, the fan experience is no different for 95% of fans that go to games compared to other stadiums around the conference and the country.

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2012, 07:24:53 AM »
You took my rusty car analogy as a direct slam on you or the city of Little Rock. 

It was really just about two things that don't make any real sense, but some people insist on doing anyway.


Look what you are doing.  You're justifying Arkansas playing in the SEC's second-shittiest stadium because its "not that much worse" than a couple of the worst stadiums in the SEC.  That's a pretty fricking low bar, and if there's emotion for me in the debate at all, its that some of our fanbase has such low fricking standards that being the worst "but not by much" is ok for them.  That's the rusty car analogy. 

The "Well that'll do, it ain't that bad" horseshit, because its more convenient for you and you're too fricking lazy to be bothered with progress or taking pride in the program. 
 

If low standards isn't wanting the vast majority of our fans to skip tailgating, yawn on the way to the game, and leave at halftime of a November rent-a-win, when we could have 100,000 people tailgating and an excited crowd, all in our state's center and population base, then yeah, I have low fricking standards. You're the one that's delusional, and too fricking lazy to be bothered with progress or taking pride in the program. You'd rather roll out of bed and drink your mimosa and get to the game 30 minutes before kickoff, for a game you probably would flip back and forth on TV if it was paired against a big SEC game, than continue to give that shitty game to a part of the state that is one of the big reasons for the success of the program today. You're the lazy and emotional one, that's pretty clear.

The problem isn't with LR fans not being willing to "change," and this bullshit caraciture you like to parrot. In fact, the reason I want LR games is so we won't be the worst. Because if the university is regionalized in 30 years, or god forbid something crazy happens like Gus does turn ASU in to Boise of the south, I don't want to see abunch of other gear around LR besides Razorback gear.

And you can roll your eyes and say what you want, but LR games are one of the big reasons for the support we have around this state. My parents didn't give a aMm about the hogs, but a friend took me to a LR game. Now I donate to two sports and make as many trips as I can. It matters, and in 30 years if it becomes the U of NWA there will be more issues with the institution as a whole than just filling up football stadiums.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2012, 07:26:54 AM »
I'd still like to see a WMS apologist address the disadvantage of playing there from a recruiting standpoint...
http://www.arkansassports360.com/29157/staggs-war-memorial-commission-working-to-keep-two-razorback-games-in-little-rock

Evidently, that's going to be the "company" line to justify moving the LSU game to Fayetteville in 2012. 

Quote
A decision appears to already have been made to not keep the LSU game in Little Rock. Though Long and the school have not announced it will move back to Fayetteville, the “Battle For The Golden Boot” appears headed to Northwest Arkansas.

Sources tell us that Arkansas requested only the Ole Miss (Oct. 27) and Kentucky (Oct. 13) dates be held for the stadium’s SEC game. Louisiana-Monroe will be the non-conference game played in Little Rock.

Reasons for moving the game include a bigger venue, the advantage of hosting recruits on campus for the biggest game of the year and more space to work for national television crews.

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2012, 07:28:36 AM »
I'd still like to see a WMS apologist address the disadvantage of playing there from a recruiting standpoint...
http://www.arkansassports360.com/29157/staggs-war-memorial-commission-working-to-keep-two-razorback-games-in-little-rock

Evidently, that's going to be the "company" line to justify moving the LSU game to Fayetteville in 2012.

We can't host recruits in Dallas, either. Yet most around here seem to think that's good for recruiting.

And we can host recruits for one game.

Offline chittlins

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2012, 07:51:08 AM »
We can't host recruits in Dallas, either. Yet most around here seem to think that's good for recruiting.

And we can host recruits for one game.

You can host a recruit at LR for one game on an unofficial. We can not give kids officials(expense paid) there. Why would we? You can't sell our campus or facilities. Thank goodness the LSU game is coming home.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2012, 07:52:26 AM »
If low standards isn't wanting the vast majority of our fans to skip tailgating, yawn on the way to the game, and leave at halftime of a November rent-a-win, when we could have 100,000 people tailgating and an excited crowd, all in our state's center and population base, then yeah, I have low fricking standards.

Hyperbole, much?  I live pretty far away now, but I've managed to attend the Alabama game in 2010 and the Auburn game in 2011.  Prior to that, the most electric atmospheres had been Texas in 04 and Tennessee in 06.  But Bama/Auburn just KILLED those atmospheres.  And they were ABSOLUTELY more electric than anything I've experienced in LR (I've been to 8 games in LR over a period of about 10 years).   I wasn't fortunate enough to have been there for either of the miracle games, though. 

Anyway, your problem seems to be that you think the football program is there to support the fans when it's the other way around.  Just because it's not as easy to get drunk and hit on some poon from El Dorado doesn't mean you CAN'T tailgate in Fayetteville.  I've never understood that.  It's almost exactly the same as your argument about WMS.  Is tailgating in Fayetteville as accomodating for tailgating, or as wide open? No.  Does that mean that you CAN'T have a good time while tailgating in what is actually available? NO!

Also, why do you bring up the state "population" center?  Is support for the UofA contingent upon us lifting our skirts to appease that population center?  Because that's what every WMS supporter ALWAYS seems to insinuate. 

You're the one that's delusional, and too fricking lazy to be bothered with progress or taking pride in the program. You'd rather roll out of bed and drink your mimosa and get to the game 30 minutes before kickoff, for a game you probably would flip back and forth on TV if it was paired against a big SEC game, than continue to give that shitty game to a part of the state that is one of the big reasons for the success of the program today. You're the lazy and emotional one, that's pretty clear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't LR have a hard time selling out for one of those "shitty" games they covet so much? This year...

The problem isn't with LR fans not being willing to "change," and this bullshit caraciture you like to parrot. In fact, the reason I want LR games is so we won't be the worst. Because if the university is regionalized in 30 years, or god forbid something crazy happens like Gus does turn ASU in to Boise of the south, I don't want to see abunch of other gear around LR besides Razorback gear.

You. have. got. to. be. kidding. me.   Have you been to Jonesboro?  Infrastructure alone, they're about 50 years behind the UofA in terms of athletics.  We've probably spent more on renovations to our major facilities in the last decade or 2 than they've ever spent TOTAL.  Do you honestly think that talented AR kids are going to choose to play in the Sun Belt, in crappy facilities, if they had an opportunity to go to Arkansas?  Do you think Arkansas is THAT PATHETIC that it would take 30 years for an also-ran to all of the sudden start pulling a significant part of our fandom away from us?

Well, Starkville, no wonder you want to keep the games in LR.  You're terrified that our program, as shitty as it evidently is, is in serious danger of falling victim to the ever expanding fallacy of Gus Malzahn's awesomeness. 

Grow some fricking balls.  You seem to have been to a lot of SEC towns/venues.  Do you think SO LITTLE of the UofA that you HONESTLY think we'd become less relevant because of a fricking Sun Belt team?  Give me a fricking break. 

So many Arkansas people make fun of Texas (my home state).  But you know what.  TX has major universities scattered across a vast region.  And every school has die hard fans in every region.  A&M doesn't try to play games in San Antonio so they won't lose some of their fan base to Texas.  Texas doesn't play some of their games in Houston so they can try to steal some A&M fans.  The schools have enough fricking confidence in their own worth that they don't feel the need to get down on their knees for some putheys who are too fickle to pick a team/school and stick with it.  Which, evidently, is an epidemic that's on the verge of overflowing through Arkansas if we took games away from LR.


And you can roll your eyes and say what you want, but LR games are one of the big reasons for the support we have around this state. My parents didn't give a aMm about the hogs, but a friend took me to a LR game. Now I donate to two sports and make as many trips as I can. It matters, and in 30 years if it becomes the U of NWA there will be more issues with the institution as a whole than just filling up football stadiums.

I don't doubt that LR played a HUGE roll in making AR what it has become.  NO DOUBT.  But times, they are a changing.  Good for you that you had a friend take you to game.  Myself, like a ton of our students from other states and NOT from Central Arkansas?  We went to the U of A because it's special.  I didn't need to attend a football game.  And going to the games now is BEYOND overrated in terms of developing a kinship for a program.  It was important to play games in LR when all you had was radio, shitty roads, and no lights.  All of that has changed. 

Every non-sentimental reason for playing in LR has evaporated.  If LR were truly serious about keeping games there, they'd be more proactive.  You can't sit around twiddling your thumbs while RRS keeps expanding.  At some point you have to say, "well, eventually RRS is going to get even nicer than it already is.  How about we start expanding?"  You can't keep waiting for RRS to expand/improve and come back a year or 2 later and have a reactionary, half-assed expansion in LR.  That, to me, says that WMS isn't committed to helping the program. That, to me, says that WMS will do the bare minimum it takes to keep the games in LR.  Nothing more, nothing less.

The University of Arkansas, in Fayetteville, will always be the University of Arkansas.  They earned that right.  Shut the frick up with your petty UofNWA aMm.  If LR was so goddamn wonderful they would have opened up their pockets in the first place and you could have your version of utopia. But that aMm DIDN'T fricking happen, did it?  NOPE.  So stop being a fricking wizard sleeve. 


Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2012, 07:56:12 AM »
We can't host recruits in Dallas, either. Yet most around here seem to think that's good for recruiting.

And we can host recruits for one game.

Because people realize 2 things:
1) Dallas payed us $5MM per game.  LR costs us, at last public estimate, $2MM per game. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...
2) We can't host recruits for official visits.  You may not know this, but the demographics from which we recruit aren't typically financially secure enough to make that trip unless they're in LR already.


 

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