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Author Topic: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824  (Read 17752 times)

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Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2012, 08:07:37 AM »
Hyperbole, much?  I live pretty far away now, but I've managed to attend the Alabama game in 2010 and the Dead Trees game in 2011.  Prior to that, the most electric atmospheres had been Texas in 04 and Tennessee in 06.  But Bama/Dead Trees just KILLED those atmospheres.  And they were ABSOLUTELY more electric than anything I've experienced in LR (I've been to 8 games in LR over a period of about 10 years).   I wasn't fortunate enough to have been there for either of the miracle games, though. 

Anyway, your problem seems to be that you think the football program is there to support the fans when it's the other way around.  Just because it's not as easy to get drunk and hit on some poon from El Dorado doesn't mean you CAN'T tailgate in Fayetteville.  I've never understood that.  It's almost exactly the same as your argument about WMS.  Is tailgating in Fayetteville as accomodating for tailgating, or as wide open? No.  Does that mean that you CAN'T have a good time while tailgating in what is actually available? NO!

Also, why do you bring up the state "population" center?  Is support for the UofA contingent upon us lifting our skirts to appease that population center?  Because that's what every WMS supporter ALWAYS seems to insinuate. 

Reading comprehension, much? I wasn't talking about the big games. I was talking about the shitty games in the beginning of the year and sandwiched in between SEC games late in the year. Fayetteville > LR for big games. No doubt. But if you don't think LR > Fayeteville for rent-a-wins, your'e crazy.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't LR have a hard time selling out for one of those "shitty" games they covet so much? This year...

Tickets were held until 24 hours before kickoff for season ticket packages and then dumped on the market with zero notification. The unsold tickets were where my season tickets are. Never been an empty seat there, even during the Nutt years. That one wasn't on the fans.

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You. have. got. to. be. kidding. me.   Have you been to Jonesboro?  Infrastructure alone, they're about 50 years behind the UofA in terms of athletics.  We've probably spent more on renovations to our major facilities in the last decade or 2 than they've ever spent TOTAL.  Do you honestly think that talented AR kids are going to choose to play in the Sun Belt, in crappy facilities, if they had an opportunity to go to Arkansas?  Do you think Arkansas is THAT PATHETIC that it would take 30 years for an also-ran to all of the sudden start pulling a significant part of our fandom away from us?


You're proving my point. Only one other state in the country where it is unimaginable the WHOLE state wouldn't support one program. I like it that way. 30 years from now, a lot can change. Starkville, 30 years ago, we were playing 4 games in LR and 2 or 3 in Fayetteville because Fayetteville's stadium was so shitty and had no lights.

See, a lot can change in 30 years, no?

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So many Arkansas people make fun of Texas (my home state).  But you know what.  TX has major universities scattered across a vast region.  And every school has die hard fans in every region.  A&M doesn't try to play games in San Antonio so they won't lose some of their fan base to Texas.  Texas doesn't play some of their games in Houston so they can try to steal some A&M fans.  The schools have enough fricking confidence in their own worth that they don't feel the need to get down on their knees for some putheys who are too fickle to pick a team/school and stick with it.  Which, evidently, is an epidemic that's on the verge of overflowing through Arkansas if we took games away from LR.


So what did A&M do with us? Why does UGA try to play in ATL every year?

That said, you hit on it when you said "die hard fans in every region." I prefer not to see regions in this state, but whatever.

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I don't doubt that LR played a HUGE roll in making AR what it has become.  NO DOUBT.  But times, they are a changing.  Good for you that you had a friend take you to game.  Myself, like a ton of our students from other states and NOT from Central Arkansas?  We went to the U of A because it's special.  I didn't need to attend a football game.  And going to the games now is BEYOND overrated in terms of developing a kinship for a program.  It was important to play games in LR when all you had was radio, shitty roads, and no lights.  All of that has changed.
 

If all that's changed, what was the importance with the Dallas game?

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The University of Arkansas, in Fayetteville, will always be the University of Arkansas.  They earned that right.  Shut the frick up with your petty UofNWA aMm.  If LR was so gawd damn wonderful they would have opened up their pockets in the first place and you could have your version of utopia. But that aMm DIDN'T fricking happen, did it?  NOPE.  So stop being a fricking wizard sleeve.

More ignorant aMm. Yeah, it's in Fayetteville. And I love that, but it doesn't have some god-given right to everyone's loyalty in this state. LR games have gone a long way to develop that, and yes, believe it or not, things change, and one day that might not be the case. Again, not sure why giving up rent-a-wins that the Crowd will roll in late, leave early, and flip around on TV if they watch it from LR is such a terroristic stance by those of us that want Arkasnas to remain rabid for the Hogs. It's more about your laziness that YOU don't want to drive to LR for a game, you'd rather roll out and catch the first 2 quarters and get back home to watch the Bama/LSU game. And what for? to destroy 60 years of tradition and kill something that has been such a big part of the program? Okay.

Offline Denny Crane

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2012, 08:09:59 AM »
Because people realize 2 things:
1) Dallas payed us $5MM per game.  LR costs us, at last public estimate, $2MM per game. Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Last public estimate? Cite it.

Between the $10 surcharge on every Little Rock ticket (approaches $600k/game) and the discount we get from LA Monroe, it's not near that number. We also get a second set of donations with the RSVP, so it's not nearly that big. Probably more in the $1 mil range.


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2) We can't host recruits for official visits.  You may not know this, but the demographics from which we recruit aren't typically financially secure enough to make that trip unless they're in LR already.

Unmitigated bullshit, so hundreds can drive to Fayetteville for unofficials but there's some kind of magic toll that makes it cost-prohibitive in LR?

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2012, 08:32:45 AM »
Last public estimate? Cite it.

Between the $10 surcharge on every Little Rock ticket (approaches $600k/game) and the discount we get from LA Monroe, it's not near that number. We also get a second set of donations with the RSVP, so it's not nearly that big. Probably more in the $1 mil range.

It was back before the last contract renewal.  And I don't have time to go back and research it. But that was the last dollar figure that was attached to it.  The U of A loses a lot of money on concessions alone.  But for argument's sake, let's say $1mm/game.  That's a loss of $2mm per year just by playing in LR. 

Playing in Dallas got us more exposure in a Big12 state, but it also paid us a helluva lot of money.  That $5MM erases the impact playing in LR had on our books.

Unmitigated bullshit, so hundreds can drive to Fayetteville for unofficials but there's some kind of magic toll that makes it cost-prohibitive in LR?

Ummm...we're not talking about unofficials? We're talking about official visits.  Official visit = no cost to the student athlete and 1 parent/guardian (i think it's 1).  Unofficial visit = we can get you in the game for free. 

So let's say the #1 linebacker in the country just happens to have a bye week during his senior year.  We've been recruiting him, but having little success in getting him to give us a further look.  But kid says, "man - arkansas is playing this weekend. I have the weekend off.  Starkville, why not. I'll see if I can get down there and check them out." Of course, said fictional kid would have to pay for his own travel for that LR game.  So kid says, "what the Starkville? Why can't you pay? Every other school does."  I mean, it's not that far fetched. 

Evidently the athletic department feels like it's too big of an issue to ignore, hence moving the LSU game back to campus. 

Offline Ty Webb

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2012, 08:43:45 AM »


Ummm...we're not talking about unofficials? We're talking about official visits.  Official visit = no cost to the student athlete and 1 parent/guardian (i think it's 1).  Unofficial visit = we can get you in the game for free. 

So let's say the #1 linebacker in the country just happens to have a bye week during his senior year.  We've been recruiting him, but having little success in getting him to give us a further look.  But kid says, "man - arkansas is playing this weekend. I have the weekend off.  Starkville, why not. I'll see if I can get down there and check them out." Of course, said fictional kid would have to pay for his own travel for that LR game.  So kid says, "what the Starkville? Why can't you pay? Every other school does."  I mean, it's not that far fetched. 

Evidently the athletic department feels like it's too big of an issue to ignore, hence moving the LSU game back to campus.
Since when does a stud player take an offical visit to a cupcake game vs ULM in LR or Eastern Michigan in Fayetteville?
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Offline geohul

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #79 on: February 09, 2012, 09:02:12 AM »
So let's say the #1 linebacker in the country just happens to have a bye week during his senior year.  We've been recruiting him, but having little success in getting him to give us a further look.  But kid says, "man - arkansas is playing this weekend. I have the weekend off.  Starkville, why not. I'll see if I can get down there and check them out." Of course, said fictional kid would have to pay for his own travel for that LR game.  So kid says, "what the Starkville? Why can't you pay? Every other school does."  I mean, it's not that far fetched. 
This is the only argument that needed to be made.  LR apologists should ask themselves if they would rather host a big time recruit at WMS or RRS.  The whole fricking point of the FOC is so we have a shiny new venue to show off to recruits that is on par with others in the SEC in terms of dressing rooms and places for the team to relax during off time.  How in the Starkville are we supposed to show that off from Little Rock?  My nephew is currently a junior OL in the state of Alabama.  He was at Bama for Junior Day when Tenpenny committed.  He has sent me pictures of their locker room and players lounge.  Holy aMm.  If Tenpenny's only exposure to the Razorbacks are the 2 times a year we play in WMS then no fricking wonder he chose Bama when he saw their facilities.  Have any of you LR apologists been in the locker rooms at WMS?  Pathetic. 

Every game we're down there we lose money.  We are giving up 2 home games a year that we could be using to recruit and show off our facilities.  RRS holds 20k more people.  Those are 3 well thought out reasons to move the games to RRS. 

VS.

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It's worked for 60 years.
  I appreciate all of the years where LR was the better venue.  I acknowledge it's history and roll in making the Razorbacks what we are today.  That being said it's not 1960 anymore.  It's time to do the right thing for this program and move all of the game to RRS. 

Offline Tim Calhoun

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #80 on: February 09, 2012, 09:03:56 AM »
Lots of University of Northwest Arkansas sentiment in here, taking a DC politics style approach to the rhetoric.

1) Tailgating ain't near what it is in LR. I love to tailgate in Fayetteville, got a great spot, and it's come a long ways....but let's be real. Rolling into the pit two hours before kickoff and trying not to run over the other late arriving tailgaters in the mass of pedestrians around player walk through ain't getting it done.

2) The ignorant aMm about WMS being a dump doesn't do anything, other than prove that you haven't been anywhere else other than RRS. Other than its size, WMS is pretty much exactly like most other major stadiums around this country. Most stadiums are huge concrete and steel structures designed to house 80,000 people for 3 hours....with nice areas for 5-10,000 fans to primp and act like they care about football as they play grabass.

3) Bama '10 was a special atmosphere. So was Dead Trees '11. Above and beyond what you could get in WMS. But that's not the point. The vast majority of the LR crowd has conceded those big games. Give LR two games, including a decent non-con like Tulsa, and let them expand the stadium and people will be happy. Fayetteville gets all the big games, and all the conference games, and doesn't have <60,000 people for a mid-November cupcake in poor weather. 

4) Giving away a home game to Dallas, now against someone most likely along the lines of Texas Tech, while pulling games from the city that supported the university for over 60 years ain't gonna fly. THAT will piss some people off.

5) And here is the most important point. We are as successful and strong as a program since when we won the national title in the '60's. That's great, and I never thought I'd see it during the Hootie years. But, I still looked up with a top 10 team playing an SEC game against a name opponent (Tennessee), and saw full empty sections in the corners of the upper deck. We had ONE game that was chock full this year -- Dead Trees. There were all kinds of seats for the non-con games.

And that's when we are in the top 10 in the strongest conference in the country with a coach that is treated like a god and the most exciting product on the field anywhere in college football. What happens when we have a down year? And we are 6-6, and we have 48,000 people in that big stadium for a game against LA-Monroe? And then 56,000 the next week for Vandy?

That's when you're going to need the LR games -- not now, not at the zenith of our program in the last 40 years.



All that said....none of this stuff will come down to what you or I post on a message board or really even football. This will play out at the highest levels of state politics, and if WMS is willing to add some more suites and 5,000 or so more seats, I fully expect there to be a completely reasonable compromise met. One that includes all conference games in Fayetteville, and two non-con games in LR with one being the Tulsa, Memphis, etc. of the group.


You made some good points but I'm confused.  You say 48 in Fay and then 56 in LR but yet didn't even sell out in LR this year during the "zenith."  So that point has to be thrown out. 

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #81 on: February 09, 2012, 09:06:03 AM »
Reading comprehension, much? I wasn't talking about the big games. I was talking about the shitty games in the beginning of the year and sandwiched in between SEC games late in the year. Fayetteville > LR for big games. No doubt. But if you don't think LR > Fayeteville for rent-a-wins, your'e crazy.

I must be crazy. Because even for those rent-a-wins, we can still pack in 20,000 more people.  10,000 more father and son afternoons of football get to happen in Fayetteville for those rent-a-wins.  And don't give me this, "LR is always raucous for EVERY game" nonsense. I know better.  I had to go to every LR for 2 years with the band. I've seen first hand how miserable LR fans AND Fayetteville fans can be.  I've seen first hand LSU come into LR and managed to be louder with 3,000 fans than we were with 50,000.  I've seen LR fans sitting on their hands for an LSU game.  I know there were people that left early for both the UNM and MSU games.  Don't act like LR is immune to disinterest once a game is out of hand, or if we're playing a subpar opponent.  LSU fans, regarded as being some of the rowdiest in the world, do the same gawd damn thing.

Tickets were held until 24 hours before kickoff for season ticket packages and then dumped on the market with zero notification. The unsold tickets were where my season tickets are. Never been an empty seat there, even during the Hootie years. That one wasn't on the fans.

Link?
 
You're proving my point. Only one other state in the country where it is unimaginable the WHOLE state wouldn't support one program. I like it that way. 30 years from now, a lot can change. Starkville, 30 years ago, we were playing 4 games in LR and 2 or 3 in Fayetteville because Fayetteville's stadium was so shitty and had no lights.



See, a lot can change in 30 years, no?
Do you sleep with a shotgun at your bedside?  It sounds like a miserable life...living in such fear.

30 years ago the Hogs were the best team in Arkansas.  30 years later the Hogs will be the best team in Arkansas.  30 years later, the Hogs will be the only team that consistently plays against the best teams in college football.  30 years later, the Hogs will be the only team in Arkansas that plays in a "BCS" level conference.  Unless you think ASU will magically start appearing on TV every weekend, I don't see how ANOTHER team, in ANOTHER secluded region is going to draw away our fans. 

Do you realize how RIDICULOUS you sound? I mean, I know it's not just you.  There are a lot of people in Arkansas that share your sentiment.  We'll call them...putheys.  You see, these putheys claim that the UofA is awesome and they love the UofA.  But these same putheys also fear that the equivalent of UT-San Antonio  is going to come up from the dregs and start pulling away fan support.  Imagine that.  Imagine how hard we would laugh at A&M if they were scared they'd lose Aggie fans to UTSA. 


 
So what did A&M do with us? Why does UGA try to play in ATL every year?

You think A&M played a game in Dallas with us because they were trying to, what, get more recruiting exposure? Or appease their Dallas area fans? Or do you think they were lured by $5MM/year? And in both of those scenarios, just as many fans can enter the gates as their home field.  They're not giving up 20,000 butts in the seats.


That said, you hit on it when you said "die hard fans in every region." I prefer not to see regions in this state, but whatever.

Stop being a puthy.  Stop living in fear.  Arkansas has always been the flagship and will always be the flagship university of the state of arkansas.  How many LR fans do you think we lost when we cut back from 3 games to 2 games per year?  Did you notice any drop?  The athletic department seems to be doing just fine these days. Fact of the matter is, there are TN fans in east arkansas. They are OM fans in SE AR.  There are LSU fans. There are Bama fans.

Our threat isn't ASU.  Our threat is an ever improving conference and fans within the state (Tenpenny) having just as much TV access to watch other SEC programs as they do Arkansas. 


If all that's changed, what was the importance with the Dallas game?

Is this a serious question? Arkansas gets plenty of exposure within AR whether we play in LR or Fayetteville from week to week.  Be it NWA, Texarkana, LR, etc.  But Arkansas doesn't GET coverage in TX outside of a box score.  TX is infinitely more important from a recruiting perspective than any other state from which we recruit.  Playing in Dallas is important because we recruit TX hard. 

Not to mention, playing in Dallas doesn't cost us $1mm/game.  And even if it did, it would still make more sense than playing in LR.  Arkansas athletes know about AR regardless.  TX athletes don't know about AR.  The fact that we were making $5mm was just a cherry on top.

More ignorant aMm. Yeah, it's in Fayetteville. And I love that, but it doesn't have some god-given right to everyone's loyalty in this state. LR games have gone a long way to develop that, and yes, believe it or not, things change, and one day that might not be the case. Again, not sure why giving up rent-a-wins that the Crowd will roll in late, leave early, and flip around on TV if they watch it from LR is such a terroristic stance by those of us that want Arkasnas to remain rabid for the Hogs. It's more about your laziness that YOU don't want to drive to LR for a game, you'd rather roll out and catch the first 2 quarters and get back home to watch the Bama/LSU game. And what for? to destroy 60 years of tradition and kill something that has been such a big part of the program? Okay.

I never said the UofA has the right to ANYONE'S loyalty.  I don't care if you're in Texarkana or Springdale.  Cheer for whoever you want to cheer for.  In my humble opinion, the U of A has every other school in the state beat by a country mile in terms of tradition, prestige, facilities, etc.  You keep talking about us throwing away tradition, having crappy tailgating, etc, etc.  Okay. What's your alternative? ASU? What tradition does ASU have with the rest of the state? How's ASU's tailgating?  Take away LR games and yes, some people will be disappointed.  But what is their alternative? They can either realize that it was a necessary move given the times, get over it, and continue to support the team they've supporter their entire lives...or they can go tailgate at ASU.  Tough choice.  Then again, I'm not a butthurt little vagina.

Oh. And it's always been closer for me to go to LR games since I graduated.  But I have always preferred the ones in Fayetteville.  I live in NYC. I don't live in Fayetteville.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #82 on: February 09, 2012, 09:10:27 AM »
Since when does a stud player take an offical visit to a cupcake game vs ULM in LR or Eastern Michigan in Fayetteville?

It's never happened because in LR because it's technically impossible.  And I'm not saying it's happened in Fayetteville. My memory's not good enough.  But the question should be, "Could it happen?"  Could Arkansas risk alienating a recruit because we can't accommodate him for an official visit on the only weekend this fictional recruit might could make it to campus? Recruits win football games.  Drunk 17 year olds do not.

Offline Clark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2012, 10:19:34 AM »
The argument of hanging on to the old ways and fear of empty seats in Fayetteville is exactly the kind of small time inferiority thinking much of our state is accustomed to. At what point do we start thinking enough of ourselves so we can change perceptions of the outside?

With the rapid growth of NWA, those vendors and move ins are raising more children up there that will become Razorback fans. More students equates to more alumni.

Play one game per year down there. Every other year play a weaker conference opponent.

I think it's time for our fan base to grow up and put their big boy pants on. It's time to expand to 80k and have 83-85k in Fayetteville. More Fayetteville games means more money not only from ticket revenues, but from increased concessions and an even bigger priority on higher level donation items like luxury boxes and club seating.

Our program may have laid its foundation with LR games, but what did that really get us when we got to the SEC? Hootie Undefeated In The Rock T-Shirts?
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Offline Stephen Colboar

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2012, 10:21:25 AM »
I think at the MINIMUM, there should be 1 non-con game in LR every other year.

I think a lot of the NWA base of fans doesn't realize the power of the LR media in terms of dealing with the whole state.


No, Ole Miss or Miss State isn't going to come in and steal fans.... but over time, without throwing the KATV's and KTHV's a bone every year or so... this "one state, one team" mentality would slowly erode. If someone wants to argue that's okay, then so be it. I'm not going to spit hyperbole and proselytize whether it is or not. I just think it would change our identity.

The Dallas games have been fun, no doubt. I'd like to do them again.
But if the issue becomes Cowboys Stadium or WMS...  what's the more important issue, our program's identity that we all know and love, or national exposure? It's not for any of us to decide unfortunately, and this is something Long may live or die by.

ALL the big games should be in RRS... but when you argue that we should never play in WMS again... I just don't agree.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #85 on: February 09, 2012, 10:27:47 AM »
No amount of posturing by the slapdick Arkansas media will make up for what kids/families see on Saturdays from ESPN/CBS.  If some LR station starts pimping ASU, do you think that'll actually fly? SERIOUSLY? Arkansas fans will be like, "OMG! That dude from the 10:00 news TOTALLY convinced me that I should drive to Jonesboro and check out all the wonderful things that are happening up there.  And I'll TOTALLY not have to worry about parking, because no one will fricking BE THERE."

Jesus Christ. 

"Well we can't fire Hootie.  Who are we going to get that's better than him?"

Living in fear.  It's the Arkansas way.  We're just not good enough to expect to attract our own fans.  We need gimmicks that no other school in the country needs. 

Offline Stephen Colboar

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #86 on: February 09, 2012, 10:32:21 AM »
No amount of posturing by the slapdick Arkansas media will make up for what kids/families see on Saturdays from ESPN/CBS.  If some LR station starts pimping ASU, do you think that'll actually fly? SERIOUSLY? Arkansas fans will be like, "OMG! That dude from the 10:00 news TOTALLY convinced me that I should drive to Jonesboro and check out all the wonderful things that are happening up there.  And I'll TOTALLY not have to worry about parking, because no one will fricking BE THERE."

Jesus Christ. 

"Well we can't fire Hootie.  Who are we going to get that's better than him?"

Living in fear.  It's the Arkansas way.  We're just not good enough to expect to attract our own fans.  We need gimmicks that no other school in the country needs.

Yeah, go see where I EVER supported Houston.

You missed my entire freaking point though. That media exposure is constant on stations that air local news across 85% of the state.
When you take away ALL of the WMS games, the U of A exposure on those stations WILL fade over time. Not immediate. It's a fact.
I don't think stAte or UCA or anyone like that will ever just change over fans in LR. I'm talking about areas like SW and SE Ark, where Arkansas Razorbacks is all anyone ever knows. Over time, that identity in those places will fade.

I'm not saying I'm even scared of that. It's not even my issue to decide. And it may take more than 15-20 years to happen, but it would.

Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #87 on: February 09, 2012, 10:32:53 AM »
I'm ok with 1 game per year in Little Rock.

I'm ok with every other year that being a Mississippi (take your pick), rotated with ULM.  I still think we should send Mizzou down there just to haze them.

I'm not ok with sending LSU there every other year, and I'm not ok with sending two games per year there perpetually.

aMm, sign a contract for one game per season there for 10 years.  I'm ok with that.

Fayetteville attendance might actually improve if people had to come to the Hill to see a good game.  If those people aren't coming to Fayetteville now, I don't see the big deal in them continuing to not come to Fayetteville for games.  Same result, right? 

Eastern and Southern Arkansas continue to lose population and it continues to shift to the north and west.
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Offline Stephen Colboar

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #88 on: February 09, 2012, 10:34:00 AM »
I'm ok with 1 game per year in Little Rock.

I'm ok with every other year that being a Mississippi (take your pick), rotated with ULM.  I still think we should send Mizzou down there just to haze them.

I'm not ok with sending LSU there every other year, and I'm not ok with sending two games per year there perpetually.

aMm, sign a contract for one game per season there for 10 years.  I'm ok with that.

Fayetteville attendance might actually improve if people had to come to the Hill to see a good game.  If those people aren't coming to Fayetteville now, I don't see the big deal in them continuing to not come to Fayetteville for games.  Same result, right? 

Eastern and Southern Arkansas continue to lose population and it continues to shift to the north and west.

Agreed completely.

Offline Rob

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #89 on: February 09, 2012, 10:38:18 AM »
I'm ok with 1 game per year in Little Rock.

I'm ok with every other year that being a Mississippi (take your pick), rotated with ULM.  I still think we should send Mizzou down there just to haze them.

I'm not ok with sending LSU there every other year, and I'm not ok with sending two games per year there perpetually.

aMm, sign a contract for one game per season there for 10 years.  I'm ok with that.

Fayetteville attendance might actually improve if people had to come to the Hill to see a good game.  If those people aren't coming to Fayetteville now, I don't see the big deal in them continuing to not come to Fayetteville for games.  Same result, right? 

Eastern and Southern Arkansas continue to lose population and it continues to shift to the north and west.

Every game is on TV.  Different that 20-30 years ago when you had to go to a game to see it live.  1 Game in Little Rock,  move on.

Offline wmr

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #90 on: February 09, 2012, 10:41:18 AM »
Every game is on TV. 

I started to put this in my post but forgot.  Anybody who wants to watch Arkansas does already.  If a kid's family can't afford a TV, then odds are slim he would ever make it to a LR game.

And if that's an issue, how about pony up some funds to ship a busload of disadvantaged kids to Fayetteville for a game that might not sell out?  You might wind up with more kids from LR exposed to games that way.

That's a helluva lot more sustainable than shipping a team, cheerleaders and band to Little Rock twice a year.
LSU fans are tres gauche.

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #91 on: February 09, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
 i agree with having non conf games in LR, that aMm doesnt bother me as long as there is games here to see. I do find it funny that there is talk about expanding rrs when it doesnt sell out now. Talk about wasting money on LR games....
"I played seven years in the NBA," Mayberry said. "But nothing can take away the time I had over here playing for Coach Richardson. They were the best years of my life. Arkansas fans are the best."

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #92 on: February 09, 2012, 10:46:58 AM »
Questions I don't have the answer to but will toss out:

1. If you pull 2 games out of LR this will cost the season ticket holders in Fayetteville and extra $500 per year for a family of 4. Would you lose season ticket holders because of this extra ticket money needed to be forked out for 2 scrub games?

B. How many season ticket holders in Fayetteville also have LR season tickets and vice-versa? Folks with only LR season tickets obviously wouldn't get season tickets to Fayetteville or they already would. Can that lost revenue be made up?

Threve. Answer The Call has seperate LR and Fayetteville donations. Pulling out of LR would set back those donations. Would the donation levels increase in Fayetteville? Would season tickets holders in both places use the extra money saved from the LR Answer The Call to subsidize the extra ticket cost for Fayetteville?

IV. I understand putting in some suites etc if there is a call for them at RRS but what I don't understand is calling for the stadium to increase capacity to 83-85K when there was a top 10 matchup last year with USC-E that didn't even sell out with 75K.

Look, I live 10 minutes from WMS. I only have LR season tickets these days after giving up my RRS tickets 4 years ago when my daughter was born to save money. Now I have a 4 year old and a 3 month old. I know there is no way I can afford season tickets to Fayetteville + the Answer The Call fee. I've still made at least 1 game per year at RRS with my wife and daughter and will continue to do so.  At the same time, if LR games are moved my money in ticket sales and donations will be lost by the UA. I expect I'm not nearly alone in this scenario.

I still think all SEC games should be at RRS but to pull all the games seems like a gamble that could backfire when times aren't as good as they are right now. Of course I could be totally off base.
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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #93 on: February 09, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
i agree with having non conf games in LR, that aMm doesnt bother me as long as there is games here to see. I do find it funny that there is talk about expanding rrs when it doesnt sell out now. Talk about wasting money on LR games....

You mean the same kind of funny that happened the last time they expanded RRS.

The kind of seating they want in the NEZ is actually in demand. It may free up some better bleacher seats and provide a revenue boost to keep the PO folks seats at or around the cheapest in the league. If the time comes for an addition of plain Jane bleacher seats they have the top of the SEZ to accomplish that with. The expansion proposed is very modest but geared to meet demand.

Offline ocelot_ark

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #94 on: February 09, 2012, 11:09:41 AM »
Yeah, go see where I EVER supported Houston.

You missed my entire freaking point though. That media exposure is constant on stations that air local news across 85% of the state.
When you take away ALL of the WMS games, the U of A exposure on those stations WILL fade over time. Not immediate. It's a fact.
I don't think stAte or UCA or anyone like that will ever just change over fans in LR. I'm talking about areas like SW and SE Ark, where Arkansas Razorbacks is all anyone ever knows. Over time, that identity in those places will fade.

I'm not saying I'm even scared of that. It's not even my issue to decide. And it may take more than 15-20 years to happen, but it would.

The Nutt thing is just similar to the irrational fear some of you have.  I don't understand any of it.  I see the U of A for what it is.  The thousands of kids from other states do the same thing.  But if you're from Arkansas, for some reason, you think it's not good enough on it's own merits.  For some reason, you think we'd lose fans/recruits to ASU, UCA, Ole Miss, Memphis, etc.  Well, if you honestly think those schools are threats then I can see your concern.  But I don't see it that way.  I have more pride in the UofA, I guess.

I understand your point about local market exposure.  But do you really think most people are turning to the 10 o'clock news to catch 4 minutes of sports more than once or twice a week? Or do you think most people get most of their sports news from ESPN?  And it's not "a fact" that U of A exposure would fade.  If you saw the UofA like I do, you would have no fear that the state would abandon fandom at the drop of a bucket.  And if you don't fear a loss of fans, you don't expect the media to ignore the wants of the local market.  So, basically, it still boils down to why you think we'd lose fans.

Those people in SE and SW Arkansas have televisions, by the way. There are Razorback fans all over the country that can't make it to games in LR, Fayetteville, or Dallas.  But thanks to this wonderful invention called the television, they can still keep that connection going from thousands of miles away.

It took Arkansas 20 years to have the kind of success we're just now having in the SEC.  But in another 20 or 30 years, the closest schools to LR/SW/SE Arkansas will surpass us to the point where our program would go down the shitter. 

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you really think Arkansas will still be playing games in LR in 100 years.  In 50 years.  In 20 years. In 10 years?  If your answer is "no" to any of those time buckets, then what's the point in waiting.  Get it over with and start a new tradition of supporting the hogs with no caveats.  Start a new tradition free of ultimatums.  But if we wait 10 or 20 years to do something, spend millions of dollars on WMS, millions of dollars on RRS, and organically it becomes a necessity to move all of the games, all we did was prolong something that should have been done now.  Stop throwing bad money after good.  Stop having 2 when 1 will suffice.

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #95 on: February 09, 2012, 11:09:58 AM »
You mean the same kind of funny that happened the last time they expanded RRS.

The kind of seating they want in the NEZ is actually in demand. It may free up some better bleacher seats and provide a revenue boost to keep the PO folks seats at or around the cheapest in the league. If the time comes for an addition of plain Jane bleacher seats they have the top of the SEZ to accomplish that with. The expansion proposed is very modest but geared to meet demand.
yea, that kind of funny. ya know the last time they expanded RRS and dont fill it up
"I played seven years in the NBA," Mayberry said. "But nothing can take away the time I had over here playing for Coach Richardson. They were the best years of my life. Arkansas fans are the best."

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #96 on: February 09, 2012, 11:11:59 AM »
i agree with having non conf games in LR, that aMm doesnt bother me as long as there is games here to see. I do find it funny that there is talk about expanding rrs when it doesnt sell out now. Talk about wasting money on LR games....

I'd rather have a few empty seats for the Troy, New Mexico, and Ole Miss' of the world and 20,000 extra people available to watch a HUGE game, then to have 20,000 people outside the gates wishing they could get into a huge game.

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #97 on: February 09, 2012, 11:21:56 AM »
yea, that kind of funny. ya know the last time they expanded RRS and dont fill it up

But it routinely holds 20,000 more than it did after the last folks questioned the need for expansion. That arguement no longer holds water. The UA can show the demand for what they want to put in and will.

Moving the LSU game is a great first step to ween the WMS folks off the LR tit.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 11:49:24 AM by chittlins »

Offline Stephen Colboar

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2012, 11:33:38 AM »
Questions I don't have the answer to but will toss out:

1. If you pull 2 games out of LR this will cost the season ticket holders in Fayetteville and extra $500 per year for a family of 4. Would you lose season ticket holders because of this extra ticket money needed to be forked out for 2 scrub games?

B. How many season ticket holders in Fayetteville also have LR season tickets and vice-versa? Folks with only LR season tickets obviously wouldn't get season tickets to Fayetteville or they already would. Can that lost revenue be made up?

Threve. Answer The Call has seperate LR and Fayetteville donations. Pulling out of LR would set back those donations. Would the donation levels increase in Fayetteville? Would season tickets holders in both places use the extra money saved from the LR Answer The Call to subsidize the extra ticket cost for Fayetteville?

IV. I understand putting in some suites etc if there is a call for them at RRS but what I don't understand is calling for the stadium to increase capacity to 83-85K when there was a top 10 matchup last year with USC-E that didn't even sell out with 75K.

Look, I live 10 minutes from WMS. I only have LR season tickets these days after giving up my RRS tickets 4 years ago when my daughter was born to save money. Now I have a 4 year old and a 3 month old. I know there is no way I can afford season tickets to Fayetteville + the Answer The Call fee. I've still made at least 1 game per year at RRS with my wife and daughter and will continue to do so.  At the same time, if LR games are moved my money in ticket sales and donations will be lost by the UA. I expect I'm not nearly alone in this scenario.

I still think all SEC games should be at RRS but to pull all the games seems like a gamble that could backfire when times aren't as good as they are right now. Of course I could be totally off base.

These are ALL issues that we should be discussing instead of the regular, same ol' hyperbole back and forth.

The Hootie thing is just similar to the irrational fear some of you have.  I don't understand any of it.  I see the U of A for what it is.  The thousands of kids from other states do the same thing.  But if you're from Arkansas, for some reason, you think it's not good enough on it's own merits.  For some reason, you think we'd lose fans/recruits to ASU, UCA, Ole Miss, Memphis, etc.  Well, if you honestly think those schools are threats then I can see your concern.  But I don't see it that way.  I have more pride in the UofA, I guess.

I understand your point about local market exposure.  But do you really think most people are turning to the 10 o'clock news to catch 4 minutes of sports more than once or twice a week? Or do you think most people get most of their sports news from ESPN?  And it's not "a fact" that U of A exposure would fade.  If you saw the UofA like I do, you would have no fear that the state would abandon fandom at the drop of a bucket.  And if you don't fear a loss of fans, you don't expect the media to ignore the wants of the local market.  So, basically, it still boils down to why you think we'd lose fans.

Those people in SE and SW Arkansas have televisions, by the way. There are Razorback fans all over the country that can't make it to games in LR, Fayetteville, or Dallas.  But thanks to this wonderful invention called the television, they can still keep that connection going from thousands of miles away.

It took Arkansas 20 years to have the kind of success we're just now having in the SEC.  But in another 20 or 30 years, the closest schools to LR/SW/SE Arkansas will surpass us to the point where our program would go down the shitter. 

Look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you really think Arkansas will still be playing games in LR in 100 years.  In 50 years.  In 20 years. In 10 years?  If your answer is "no" to any of those time buckets, then what's the point in waiting.  Get it over with and start a new tradition of supporting the hogs with no caveats.  Start a new tradition free of ultimatums.  But if we wait 10 or 20 years to do something, spend millions of dollars on WMS, millions of dollars on RRS, and organically it becomes a necessity to move all of the games, all we did was prolong something that should have been done now.  Stop throwing bad money after good.  Stop having 2 when 1 will suffice.

Man, I'm sorry. I stopped reading after the first paragraph where you clearly didn't even read what I said.

It's not about losing fans to other schools. I'm talking about gaining new ones over time. I'm talking about losing the identity that we are "Arkansas' team." It wouldn't be immediate, but some of that mystique would fade over time.

Like someone else has already mentioned, I'm not sure how dramatic of a shift it would be with the population balance shifting west and north...  however, the LR media is perceived as "Arkansas' media." If Razorback PR and media buzz isn't getting shoved down your throat from an early age, it's not going to matter whether you can watch the games on TV or not... Starkville, from that aspect, if I'm 9 or 10 RIGHT NOW, what's to keep me from deciding I'm an Oregon fan and moving on from there? They're accessible from a TV stand point, too.

Obviously the WMS games aren't going to prevent that by themselves, but they play a major role in this entire state having that "Razorback identity" that pretty muck instills Razorback fandom into any Arkansan basically by birth.

You can call all of that fear and woe is me jargon and what-not if you want, it's a valid point. That mystique is what has always, to me, made this state and our program so unique. If you spend a lot of time here, you end up rooting for the Razorbacks. It's pretty fricking cool and I'd like to retain that as long as possible. Games in WMS DO play a role in that. More so than any game in Dallas. Not SEC games in WMS, not LSU games... just one non-con game. I'd even say every other year.

Offline Aporkalypse_Now

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Re: GSD v2012.2.8 Build 70824
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2012, 12:39:32 PM »
But it routinely holds 20,000 more than it did after the last folks questioned the need for expansion. That arguement no longer holds water. The UA can show the demand for what they want to put in and will.

Moving the LSU game is a great first step to ween the WMS folks off the LR tit.

First step, huh?

I remember when there were 4 games in WMS and 3 in Fayetteville.  Flipping it the other way around a couple of decades ago was probably the first step.

Another big step was dropping WMS to 2 games.

Then swapping South Carolina for Miss State because it was a higher profile game.

I think moving LSU to Fayetteville isn't part of some grand and sinister plan, Petrino requested Long do it so that we could get a great home atmosphere and a big visit weekend.  I've heard that weekend after Thanksgiving has actually become a really big weekend for official visits now.


I don't know if the next step is moving all games out of WMS or going to just 1 game a year there, but we're a lot closer to the bottom of the staircase than the top of it.

 

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